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shaunedwardsfan​club​ wrote:We have got to ask why we couldn't create any opportunities with so much ball on their line early in the second half.

Isn't that the story of our season?

DaveO wrote:

shaunedwardsfan​club​ wrote:We have got to ask why we couldn't create any opportunities with so much ball on their line early in the second half.

Isn't that the story of our season?

Yes, but changes don't seem to be forthcoming. We seem to be working on the pretence that certain players will come good when in truth they have been poor on the whole for a long while.

shaunedwardsfan​club​ wrote:

DaveO wrote:

shaunedwardsfan​club​ wrote:We have got to ask why we couldn't create any opportunities with so much ball on their line early in the second half.

Isn't that the story of our season?

Yes, but changes don't seem to be forthcoming. We seem to be working on the pretence that certain players will come good when in truth they have been poor on the whole for a long while.

I have said previously on here Wane was waiting for Sam to get into the team and once he did the old attack would click.

Not quite worked out has it?

I think the bottom line is Wane thinks if Gells, CLubb and Faz get back and are fit, he will win.

Not convinced.

DaveO wrote:

shaunedwardsfan​club​ wrote:

DaveO wrote: Isn't that the story of our season?

Yes, but changes don't seem to be forthcoming. We seem to be working on the pretence that certain players will come good when in truth they have been poor on the whole for a long while.

I have said previously on here Wane was waiting for Sam to get into the team and once he did the old attack would click.

Not quite worked out has it?

I think the bottom line is Wane thinks if Gells, CLubb and Faz get back and are fit, he will win.

Not convinced.

No it hasn't, but we have been better whilst he has been in the team. Gells is better than Sarge in that he makes more yards and occasionally passes to Fredi. Faz is a big miss for us, he is in a totally different league than Isa, whilst Clubb has performed better than either FPN and Mossop. Crosby will be a big miss as is Josh but the biggest problem for me is Smith as he has no pace or a passing game to worry the opposition. E had plenty of field position and ball early in the second half but we were unable to open up the Saints.

shaunedwardsfan​club​ wrote: No it hasn't, but we have been better whilst he has been in the team. Gells is better than Sarge in that he makes more yards and occasionally passes to Fredi. Faz is a big miss for us, he is in a totally different league than Isa, whilst Clubb has performed better than either FPN and Mossop. Crosby will be a big miss as is Josh but the biggest problem for me is Smith as he has no pace or a passing game to worry the opposition. E had plenty of field position and ball early in the second half but we were unable to open up the Saints.

Think you are right about Faz. Underrated player. He's not international standard but he is great for us. He will make a break few 2nd rows even try.

As to Smith tonight I could not believe how many times he was looking along the line to pass and was unaware there might be another option.

I am sick and tired of pointing out that Smith has been so poor all season but for some reason I get criticised for slating him.Once again we had so much possession yet could only score 1 try, if we had Sandow, Gidley, Gale or Kelly at 7 we would be top of the league.Sarginson runs around the field like a headless chicken getting nowhere and Williams is still inconsistent.Sam plainly not fit and Isa tackles his heart out but cant catch the ball.Next week is not looking good.

A very disappointing performance, and understandable that many committed fans "have a go" at the coach/team.

Some of the more extreme comments, eg implying no player had pride, are clearly the result of this frustration rather than a rational assessment of the game.

Bateman had an outstanding game. Lockers possibly worked the hardest he's managed so far this season. The likes of Sutton, Flower, and Powell were at their usual high standard. Mossop looked lethargic earlier in the season; I thought he was driving the ball up well last night and made a few outstanding marker tackles.

In a defeat like this, attacking opportunities for the likes of Manfredi or Sam are virtually non-existant, so it's unfair to blame them.

Why did we lose then?

Lack of ideas on attack: there's some truth in this, though we do offload more this season, so it's not true that we've only ever had Plan A ("Waneball") under SW. Our wins are usually built on our forwards wearing down the opposition. We seem fitter & have more depth, especially with 2 or 3 props on the bench.

IMO, Crosby & FPN are not match fit - 2 props short stopped us getting on top of the opposition, allowing Saints to dominate us, dictate the pace of the game. There could be others who ideally shouldn't have played.

Errors: As already said, Isa worked his socks off, but dropped ball from him and Sarge helped Saints win possession and position.

If we play like that again with any 2 from Clubb, Crosby, Nuuausala, and Tautai fully fit to add to that squad, then I'll accept that the doomsayers are right. Let's see!

LooseHead wrote:Sam clearly not fit. Miles away from looking sharp and looked one speed. Possibly had Charnley not been banned we wouldn't have seen Sam tonight?

Going over the canal bridge I said to my son 'What chance Sam is announced missing from the team, a late withdrawal'. Unfortunately he wasn't but on last night's showing I am as fit as Sam and I was at my best 50 years ago.

Good post MPE.
I do think that it is our right as fans to be upset and it is inevitable that a vituperative and scathing debrief will take place. The one thing that seems consistent is that we all want Wigan to be "better" or we need someone who can "create" etc etc. No one on here could break down the tactics and make some tangible comment about exactly 'how' we can be better or 'how' the aforementioned "Plan B" would work. But I guess that is our prerogative as fans.
Don't get me wrong, there are some extremely knowledgable people who post on here and I'm not suggesting we're naive to the problems but it's very easy to point out that we were rubbish last night without knowing the exacting changes that would have to be made to make us the team we want to be. What 'we' do say consistently is that we need 'this' or 'that' without actually knowing what 'this or that' is from any tangible standpoint.

For me (and accepting that I too am guilty of the above) we were all effort over composure. Our attack didn't work and so instead of changing it, we just kept doing it and it still didn't work.
There has to be a lot of credit to Saints too though. Their defence was outstanding and they took their chances when they presented themselves. It's just such a shame after all the build up and the hype that "my Derby" was something that I cannot forget quickly enough. And especially after 2hrs 15 mins on the bloody M6 to get there.
For me, things have to change... but as I've tried to say, I'm not entirely convinced that any of us really know what those changes have to be.

I cannot understand why Wigan resign these players Joel Tompkins, Lee Mossop .Sam now Lealui they just not done it since coming back bringing back injuries that cost us weeks on the touch line .signing a player who,s not played for 3 months and putting him straight in thers plenty of our own lads sat in the stands waiting for their chance how must they feel . Never saw Wigan play so bad we made Saints look like superstars needs a good clear out and a new coach only 2 decent players last night was Bateman anf Flowers