morley pie eater wrote:
The biggest disappointment for me was the bloke behind us who constantly shouted that he'd never seen anything as bad in 60 years of watching Wigan. He repeatedly said that, if we were nilled he wouldn't come again. We scored 6.
I bet he'd be there next week if we had got nilled and while it's a bit childish to be shouting that don't you feel his pain? I bet he genuinely does think it's one of the worst sides he'd seen in 60 years (and before anyone quips it was no, no it wasn't! )
As to your green shoots if you look at various forums not just here you will find people trying to take the positives out of individual performances but you can do that every time we lose. I think by now all lines of enquiry point in one direction which is despite the efforts of Bateman or whoever has a good game, the team collectively is not good enough as a team.
The going sideways, nothing coming from the half backs, no support play etc all nullify the odd individual performance and I don't think people see this changing until Wane has left. Even then it looks like the new coach will be hamstrung with the two best players leaving. The fact a positive was our new centre didn't look crap says it all We no longer expect much from our recruits.
A good response, Dave. Unfortunately not to the points I actually made but to your interpretation of them.
eg What I said about Hankinson:
Chris Hankinson showed some promise in what could hardly have been a more pressurised debut short of being in a Grand Final.
I didn't mention Wane or coaching but I think we've all got the message that you're not that keen on him.
Could I introduce a random thought? There's been talk about falling attendances. Is it possible that one factor, illustrated by the fan of 60 years sat behind me, could be all the moaning that surrounds Wigan? You know that I live in Leeds - I really don't hear anything like the same level of complaining that Wigan fans produce, and they've had much more cause, almost certainly being in the middle 8s in 2 of the last 3 years.
I was generalising about the reaction to Harkinson but you seem to have picked up on that one point and ignored my comment about it all being very well for you to talk of individual performances but that as a team we still fall short and people have had enough of it. What exactly is wrong with expressing that opinion and why is it not allowed to point this out?
Yes you can point to individual performances but so what when we play crap is the simple point.
And what if you didn't mention Wane? I didn't say you did. The fact I did because I don't think this will change until he's gone is just all part of the discussion and not just my opinion either.
If you don't think Leeds fans moan you are not looking very hard. There was a 250+ page thread on their board on RLfans wanting McDermott out! They are exactly the same as here, in that despite GF wins many wanted rid.
As to the general point does moaning contribute to falling attendances, I'd say quite simply no because it must be obvious that in general people only moan (as opposed to express differences of opinion on the team etc - there is a difference) when there is something to moan about. You do get the odd one like the chap I mention often who used to moan constantly about ANdy Farrell who sat near me but such nutters are rare. What contributes to falling attendances is poor play and a lack of success. Like it or not Wigan fans expect a higher standard than what is being served up over the past few seasons. Poor recruitment contributes also. No excitement in promoting yet another junior player when that happens. Sad maybe but true.
morley pie eater wrote:
The biggest disappointment for me was the bloke behind us who constantly shouted that he'd never seen anything as bad in 60 years of watching Wigan. He repeatedly said that, if we were nilled he wouldn't come again. We scored 6.
I bet he'd be there next week if we had got nilled and while it's a bit childish to be shouting that don't you feel his pain? I bet he genuinely does think it's one of the worst sides he'd seen in 60 years (and before anyone quips it was no, no it wasn't! )
As to your green shoots if you look at various forums not just here you will find people trying to take the positives out of individual performances but you can do that every time we lose. I think by now all lines of enquiry point in one direction which is despite the efforts of Bateman or whoever has a good game, the team collectively is not good enough as a team.
The going sideways, nothing coming from the half backs, no support play etc all nullify the odd individual performance and I don't think people see this changing until Wane has left. Even then it looks like the new coach will be hamstrung with the two best players leaving. The fact a positive was our new centre didn't look crap says it all. We no longer expect much from our recruits.
is it the side or is it just the coaching ?
Both. The tactics and selection are poor (coaching) but some players are no where near good enough (side).
I have said before it's a clean sheet for me when a new coach arrives as to the players to see what he can get out of them but I think with some you would find even Wayne Bennett would not be able to get them to play well. Just not good enough even for SL such as it is standards wise these days.
DaveO wrote:
I bet he'd be there next week if we had got nilled and while it's a bit childish to be shouting that don't you feel his pain? I bet he genuinely does think it's one of the worst sides he'd seen in 60 years (and before anyone quips it was no, no it wasn't! )
As to your green shoots if you look at various forums not just here you will find people trying to take the positives out of individual performances but you can do that every time we lose. I think by now all lines of enquiry point in one direction which is despite the efforts of Bateman or whoever has a good game, the team collectively is not good enough as a team.
The going sideways, nothing coming from the half backs, no support play etc all nullify the odd individual performance and I don't think people see this changing until Wane has left. Even then it looks like the new coach will be hamstrung with the two best players leaving. The fact a positive was our new centre didn't look crap says it all. We no longer expect much from our recruits.
is it the side or is it just the coaching ?
Both. The tactics and selection are poor (coaching) but some players are no where near good enough (side).
I have said before it's a clean sheet for me when a new coach arrives as to the players to see what he can get out of them but I think with some you would find even Wayne Bennett would not be able to get them to play well. Just not good enough even for SL such as it is standards wise these days.
i was thinking about Huddersfield because they were down and out and they get an aussie coach and have been looking good and i personally cant believe all their team is really high standard
Talking to a Saints fan after the game who made the point that 16
ago those same fans were booing those same players for abysmal performances.
New coach, new ideas and they've virtually got a new team although it is the same players.
Same as happened with us when McGuire took over 2010.
Hopefully the new coach can do the same again for us.
Wiganer Ted wrote:Talking to a Saints fan after the game who made the point that 16
ago those same fans were booing those same players for abysmal performances.
New coach, new ideas and they've virtually got a new team although it is the same players.
Same as happened with us when McGuire took over 2010.
Hopefully the new coach can do the same again for us.
DaveO wrote:
I bet he'd be there next week if we had got nilled and while it's a bit childish to be shouting that don't you feel his pain? I bet he genuinely does think it's one of the worst sides he'd seen in 60 years (and before anyone quips it was no, no it wasn't! )
As to your green shoots if you look at various forums not just here you will find people trying to take the positives out of individual performances but you can do that every time we lose. I think by now all lines of enquiry point in one direction which is despite the efforts of Bateman or whoever has a good game, the team collectively is not good enough as a team.
The going sideways, nothing coming from the half backs, no support play etc all nullify the odd individual performance and I don't think people see this changing until Wane has left. Even then it looks like the new coach will be hamstrung with the two best players leaving. The fact a positive was our new centre didn't look crap says it all We no longer expect much from our recruits.
A good response, Dave. Unfortunately not to the points I actually made but to your interpretation of them.
eg What I said about Hankinson:
Chris Hankinson showed some promise in what could hardly have been a more pressurised debut short of being in a Grand Final.
I didn't mention Wane or coaching but I think we've all got the message that you're not that keen on him.
Could I introduce a random thought? There's been talk about falling attendances. Is it possible that one factor, illustrated by the fan of 60 years sat behind me, could be all the moaning that surrounds Wigan? You know that I live in Leeds - I really don't hear anything like the same level of complaining that Wigan fans produce, and they've had much more cause, almost certainly being in the middle 8s in 2 of the last 3 years.
I was generalising about the reaction to Harkinson but you seem to have picked up on that one point and ignored my comment about it all being very well for you to talk of individual performances but that as a team we still fall short and people have had enough of it. What exactly is wrong with expressing that opinion and why is it not allowed to point this out?
Yes you can point to individual performances but so what when we play crap is the simple point.
And what if you didn't mention Wane? I didn't say you did. The fact I did because I don't think this will change until he's gone is just all part of the discussion and not just my opinion either.
If you don't think Leeds fans moan you are not looking very hard. There was a 250+ page thread on their board on RLfans wanting McDermott out! They are exactly the same as here, in that despite GF wins many wanted rid.
As to the general point does moaning contribute to falling attendances, I'd say quite simply no because it must be obvious that in general people only moan (as opposed to express differences of opinion on the team etc - there is a difference) when there is something to moan about. You do get the odd one like the chap I mention often who used to moan constantly about ANdy Farrell who sat near me but such nutters are rare. What contributes to falling attendances is poor play and a lack of success. Like it or not Wigan fans expect a higher standard than what is being served up over the past few seasons. Poor recruitment contributes also. No excitement in promoting yet another junior player when that happens. Sad maybe but true.
My apologies, Dave - I missed one of your points.
While I'm at it, I might as well also apologise for not even reading the rest of what you said here, and admit that I won't read any of your reply to this.
You will find something to disagree with whatever is said. I recommend counselling. Mr Angry. Anyone who says anything other than agreeing with me needs correcting (in every detail).
Dave, I expressed a reasonable, positive opinion. I didn't pick an argument with you. In fact, I avoid responding to your posts because I know what you're like. I replied on this occasion simply because you had a go at my post, and mis-represented what I'd said, both in detail and in intent.
Wiganer Ted wrote:Talking to a Saints fan after the game who made the point that 16
ago those same fans were booing those same players for abysmal performances.
New coach, new ideas and they've virtually got a new team although it is the same players.
Same as happened with us when McGuire took over 2010.
Hopefully the new coach can do the same again for us.
Wiganer Ted wrote:Talking to a Saints fan after the game who made the point that 16
ago those same fans were booing those same players for abysmal performances.
New coach, new ideas and they've virtually got a new team although it is the same players.
Same as happened with us when McGuire took over 2010.
Hopefully the new coach can do the same again for us.
)
