Optimism

[medlocke]

When a player has been at the club for a decade and has only had 1 notable season then surely it is time to leave, Our fans seem to be happy settling for mediocrity rather than excellence we have known in the past, Lenagan = mediocrity, yes we have won trophies under his tenure but have we dominated for periods of time like we used to and like how Saints are doing at the moment, Happy clapping get's you nowhere

[morley pie eater]

ITS A FORUM!

Its were we can say what we like good or bad and why?

Because it doesnt matter, it's a forum.

The people who complain about posts on here are not the people who criticise the players but the ones who dont. So please try to stop dictating who can say what!

This argument/discussion keeps repeating its self time and time again.

Just let people say what they like without criticising them because it doesn't matter!

1. Nobody said you can't criticise players. If you think they did (or I did) please back it up with a quote.

2. You are defending the right to criticise:

Its were we can say what we like good or bad

but then try to stop criticism:

Just let people say what they like without criticising them

So it's ok for one poster to constantly criticise a player, but no-one is allowed to disagree?

[PJC]

I started this thread and it has created a lot of discussion. I said at the start that every fan has the right to voice an opinion. I have also said that certain players seem to receive a lot of unqualified “stick” which goes beyond criticism. I am not going to give any examples as readers have the right to decide for themselves.
This is my approach and if other people see differently that’s up to them.

[Charriots Offiah]

I’m optimistic about where we can go in the next couple of years but that could quickly be snuffed out if we don’t manage to stem the talent drain out of the club. We need to keep one of Field/French and we need to tie down Havard and KPP long term. We need to start deciding who leaves on our terms and not always rebuilding.

At the end of this season I presume it’s nailed on Hardaker and Leuluai leave/retire and that’s absolutely fine. One of Field or French is likely to follow them and that should be that. We then need to get the right players in and if we do that we can continue this progress. Guys like Byrne, Smithies, Havard and KPP are getting there but we’ll never ‘get there’ as a team if by the time they’re hitting their mid twenties they’re playing elsewhere. All we’ll be doing then is developing players for other clubs.

That sums it up for me. A couple of astute signings to replace Tommy and Zak, coupled with our younger players continuing to show improvement and we will definitely be heading in the right direction.

[archiekeith]

First of all every fan has the right to express their opinion. On reading through posts there are negative comments about the team and against some players in particular from some individuals.
A team needs to develop. Success doesn’t come overnight. Yes Wigan could do with a couple of “enforcers” to break the line. But where are the Kelvin Skerrets?
Wigan this season have more spring in their game. So let’s stop highlighting individuals and give some encouragement

Why in heavens name should we highlight all the positives and ignore the negatives,praise is good when deserved as is criticism.As for Skerret and his like they would be a complete liability in todays game so if i were you i would find a better example.

Thought you enjoyed the biff and bash blindside yes I agree with you re posters opinions positive or negative we don't have to agree with them No! every poster can have and express an opinion within the protocols of the forum

[morley pie eater]

When a player has been at the club for a decade and has only had 1 notable season then surely it is time to leave, Our fans seem to be happy settling for mediocrity rather than excellence we have known in the past, Lenagan = mediocrity, yes we have won trophies under his tenure but have we dominated for periods of time like we used to and like how Saints are doing at the moment, Happy clapping get's you nowhere

Hi Meds, I always look forward to reading your posts, and agree with 50% of them! I think just about everybody who posts on here is, in some way, looking for a reaction of some kind, and no one is better at it than you are!

I question your use of "happy clapping". I'm proud to be labelled a happy clapper because it's always been my approach to support the team through thick and thin. (I think the late 70s was the hardest time to be a happy clapper.)

What I disagree with is the perception that a happy clapper only sees the positives, never sees mistakes, or thinks a player is not good enough. That's a simplistic characterisation that is nonsense, yet believed by some.

I'm motivated to post when I feel the complainers are taking it too far. We've had spells where it seemed that almost every thread was turned into a "slag off....." a certain player. Not only was the this unfair, but utterly boring as anybody who reads the threads on this forum could recite the list of "reasons" he wasn't good enough in their sleep.

The same happened a few years ago with Matty Smith. As with MS, the latest target is not a star, not the best in his position in the league, and I would be happy (but not necessarily clappy) if the club brought in someone better who improved the team. Same with any other player.

The characterisation of a happy clapper as someone who sees no wrong with any player or the club is, for some (not you), a defence mechanism and an attempt to support a weak argument. Same for the "we're not allowed to criticise" trope.

There's a difference between reasoned criticism and persistent hounding of a player over 2 years or more. And some of us, call us happy clappers or whatever, feel that it's only right to respond and challenge, for the sake of balance if nothing else.

Anyroad, how's the biking going these days - not heard you mentioned it for a while? Just dusted mine off from its winter sleep. Planning a tour round Ireland if Covid restrictions allow it.

[blindsideprop]

ITS A FORUM!

Its were we can say what we like good or bad and why?

Because it doesnt matter, it's a forum.

The people who complain about posts on here are not the people who criticise the players but the ones who dont. So please try to stop dictating who can say what!

This argument/discussion keeps repeating its self time and time again.

Just let people say what they like without criticising them because it doesn't matter!

At last someone with some common sense.

[blindsideprop]

First of all every fan has the right to express their opinion. On reading through posts there are negative comments about the team and against some players in particular from some individuals.
A team needs to develop. Success doesn’t come overnight. Yes Wigan could do with a couple of “enforcers” to break the line. But where are the Kelvin Skerrets?
Wigan this season have more spring in their game. So let’s stop highlighting individuals and give some encouragement

Why in heavens name should we highlight all the positives and ignore the negatives,praise is good when deserved as is criticism.As for Skerret and his like they would be a complete liability in todays game so if i were you i would find a better example.

Thought you enjoyed the biff and bash blindside yes I agree with you re posters opinions positive or negative we don't have to agree with them No! every poster can have and express an opinion within the protocols of the forum

I love the biff always have done and am sad it has been more or less eradicated from our game,but the laws of the game have become stricter so we must abide by them which is ,as you know not something i or many others agree with.

[Exiled Wiganer]

On removing the biff, I think a large part of it is understanding the medical damage caused by head shots. It isn’t the game going soft, it is that we need to protect the players’ futures.
I am optimistic about the rest of this season, having been off the scale pessimistic coming into the year. We are showing far more attacking intent which is.a credit to Peet (and I am not sure I have ever seen Tommy play better as a 7, so maybe Briers as well), our props are far more effective - Byrne has far exceeded anything I thought he was capable of - and Field has been an excitement machine, when I was worried he would not fully recover. We may yet see French contribute something good thus year as well. Honestly, I see no reason why we can’t win the Cup this year, especially if Catalans beat Saints next week. We won’t have to go to France or New Knowsley Road to win it in any case.
I try to explain why I feel strongly when I criticise strongly. Usually, it has nothing to do with the person, it is because their skill sets are not what we need.

[Wigan_forever1985]

Few interesting points in this thread

Think the most interesting was around saints being bang average under kfc but improving after - one of he most obvious criticism of kfc was the “jobs for the boys” culture and keeping average players that weren’t good enough because they were mates of kfc or in the “good books”

The way saints moved on from that was to ditch that approach the very same approach wigan currently have

Again though I’ve asked this question before and no one answered so I’ll ask it again

In terms of Powell everyone’s favourite subject - when he’s had a decent game I see lots of positive comments - see the hull thread for examples

But like Marty smith before him it’s like 1 in 10 games that happens - so for the other 9 games I’m not sure what we are supposed to do are we to just not talk about him? This thing about it being boring to point out his flaws - well if they happen match on match how many matches can we comment on before it’s boring?

I mean if a play knocked on everytime they carried the ball how many times are you allowed to say they are bad before it’s “boring” and we aren’t allowed to say it anymore

I’ve never seen Powell have a good match and been slagged off on the threads