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Live and let live, dont judge anyone, dont force your believes on anyone just accept we are all different and live in a peaceful society.

Wigan Watcher wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:59 am Live and let live, dont judge anyone, dont force your believes on anyone just accept we are all different and live in a peaceful society.

Spot on.

Wigan Watcher wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:59 am Live and let live, dont judge anyone, dont force your believes on anyone just accept we are all different and live in a peaceful society.

My point is though if that belief is "everyone should be free who they want and love who they want" then to suggest its being forced on someone is to suggest that person disagrees with that

To contextualise this the players arent being asked to change anything about their lives they arent being asked to do anything different they are simply putting on the same kit they always put on but instead of white fabric its now rainbow fabric for 1 game

Ill address the comment about "you people" made at me

so it may not be black and white but the scale to me goes

Maybe that they dont agree with people being gay - if thats the case then im sorry youre a knob -calling it free speech or freedom of choice is fine, it doesnt stop you being a knob - this should not be a controversial subject - allowing 1 person the freedom to love another or be who they are.

Now if the players are saying they have no issue with people being gay then whats the imapct on them to wear a kit that supports that community? what is the ACTUAL impact to them, its a work uniform - its not their own clothes so if they dont care then why care about wearing it?

The flip side think of how damaging this is to young gay rugby players seeing high profile stars refusing to wear a symbol of support for their community for 1 game.

just hope that the people (and this isnt aimed at anyone here) who support these players dont have children who are potentially gay and scared to come out

just because it doesnt effect you directly just ask yourself

when was the last time it was illegal to be straight anywhere
when was the last time you had less rights because you were straight
when was the last time someone took take their life because they are straight and cant find their place
when was the last time someone was attacked simply for being straight

i can give you a plethora of answers for the flip of those questions

Wigan forever

I appreciate your strongly-held beliefs. (Though I don't think calling someone a knob adds to your otherwise well-reasoned argument).

The issue of freedom is always a tricky one where opposing views are concerned. For my part, I think Israel Folau was wrong, because he gratuitously went public with views condemning other people.

The Manly 7 see their situation as being forced into something they disagree with, and therefore are exercising their freedom. They may be right or they may be wrong, but that's not the issue. They haven't tried to force their views on anyone, as far as I can see. The only action they've taken is refusing to wear a shirt. Sonny Bill was allowed to cover up BetFred (?) on his short, without a big hoo-ha from the press or supporters.

The word "tolerance" is often misused to mean acceptance or even agreement. Tolerance is aceepting someone's right to say or do things you disagree with. The original toleration acts in England in the 1600s helped to calm down the hostilities between various religious groups in the age of the Civil War.

It's possible to tolerate the Manly 7's views whilst disagreeing with them. To change their view should only be done by persuasion, not by force or by name-calling.

morley pie eater wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 1:23 pm Wigan forever

I appreciate your strongly-held beliefs. (Though I don't think calling someone a knob adds to your otherwise well-reasoned argument).

The issue of freedom is always a tricky one where opposing views are concerned. For my part, I think Israel Folau was wrong, because he gratuitously went public with views condemning other people.

The Manly 7 see their situation as being forced into something they disagree with, and therefore are exercising their freedom. They may be right or they may be wrong, but that's not the issue. They haven't tried to force their views on anyone, as far as I can see. The only action they've taken is refusing to wear a shirt. Sonny Bill was allowed to cover up BetFred (?) on his short, without a big hoo-ha from the press or supporters.

The word "tolerance" is often misused to mean acceptance or even agreement. Tolerance is aceepting someone's right to say or do things you disagree with. The original toleration acts in England in the 1600s helped to calm down the hostilities between various religious groups in the age of the Civil War.

It's possible to tolerate the Manly 7's views whilst disagreeing with them. To change their view should only be done by persuasion, not by force or by name-calling.

Again spot on.

morley pie eater wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 1:23 pm Wigan forever

I appreciate your strongly-held beliefs. (Though I don't think calling someone a knob adds to your otherwise well-reasoned argument).

The issue of freedom is always a tricky one where opposing views are concerned. For my part, I think Israel Folau was wrong, because he gratuitously went public with views condemning other people.

The Manly 7 see their situation as being forced into something they disagree with, and therefore are exercising their freedom. They may be right or they may be wrong, but that's not the issue. They haven't tried to force their views on anyone, as far as I can see. The only action they've taken is refusing to wear a shirt. Sonny Bill was allowed to cover up BetFred (?) on his short, without a big hoo-ha from the press or supporters.

The word "tolerance" is often misused to mean acceptance or even agreement. Tolerance is accepting someone's right to say or do things you disagree with. The original toleration acts in England in the 1600s helped to calm down the hostilities between various religious groups in the age of the Civil War.

It's possible to tolerate the Manly 7's views whilst disagreeing with them. To change their view should only be done by persuasion, not by force or by name-calling.

I do get that - but notice that they aren't using the same religious grounds for the gambling sponsors or playing in a stadium that is sponsored by alcohol - both of which are detrimental to society.

I think the word beliefs has been used a lot in this thread often when used to object to the shirt people "pushing their beliefs" for example. Now important to clear up a fact - being gay isn't a belief - its a way someone is either born or grows into. In addition the communities pride supports aren't believing the oppression they suffer its actually happening 69 countries its still illegal - even in this country it was only "legal" in 1967

beliefs are a choice - so if you chose to belief in some fictional character in the sky who is the be all and end all of everything and choose to think that somehow a being of such immense power would give a damn who you hold hands with - yep then you are well within your rights to believe that but commit to it - don't wear the gamblers sponsors - don't play in the stadium - don't become an idol to fans (also a sin). Most of these players will quite happily take to the field with wife beaters and drug abusers.

i do take the point on name calling its not a tactic i use under normal circumstances

ill leave it there

Wigan_forever1985 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 1:51 pm

morley pie eater wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 1:23 pm Wigan forever

I appreciate your strongly-held beliefs. (Though I don't think calling someone a knob adds to your otherwise well-reasoned argument).

The issue of freedom is always a tricky one where opposing views are concerned. For my part, I think Israel Folau was wrong, because he gratuitously went public with views condemning other people.

The Manly 7 see their situation as being forced into something they disagree with, and therefore are exercising their freedom. They may be right or they may be wrong, but that's not the issue. They haven't tried to force their views on anyone, as far as I can see. The only action they've taken is refusing to wear a shirt. Sonny Bill was allowed to cover up BetFred (?) on his short, without a big hoo-ha from the press or supporters.

The word "tolerance" is often misused to mean acceptance or even agreement. Tolerance is accepting someone's right to say or do things you disagree with. The original toleration acts in England in the 1600s helped to calm down the hostilities between various religious groups in the age of the Civil War.

It's possible to tolerate the Manly 7's views whilst disagreeing with them. To change their view should only be done by persuasion, not by force or by name-calling.

I do get that - but notice that they aren't using the same religious grounds for the gambling sponsors or playing in a stadium that is sponsored by alcohol - both of which are detrimental to society.

I think the word beliefs has been used a lot in this thread often when used to object to the shirt people "pushing their beliefs" for example. Now important to clear up a fact - being gay isn't a belief - its a way someone is either born or grows into. In addition the communities pride supports aren't believing the oppression they suffer its actually happening 69 countries its still illegal - even in this country it was only "legal" in 1967

beliefs are a choice - so if you chose to belief in some fictional character in the sky who is the be all and end all of everything and choose to think that somehow a being of such immense power would give a damn who you hold hands with - yep then you are well within your rights to believe that but commit to it - don't wear the gamblers sponsors - don't play in the stadium - don't become an idol to fans (also a sin). Most of these players will quite happily take to the field with wife beaters and drug abusers.

i do take the point on name calling its not a tactic i use under normal circumstances

ill leave it there

fictional character in the sky 

Mmmmm. Unbelievable considering your comments..This screams hypocrisy!

I will not comment further and leave you with your own thoughts!

If only the alphabet ideology was as inclusive as is professed, this forcing of what comes across as mindless compliance is damaging society to a similar extent as the other mentioned vices. If x, y, z is not agreed then it is deemed as bigotry, hate speech (another biased by design tool) e.c.t. with the irony being missed in most cases.

perhaps ideology should be separate from events that are open to everybody, narrative removed and keep the melting pot simply as it is.

otherwise it would seem that this would be a slippery slope, next could be something more sinister (arguably), such as supporting terrorist organisations such as black lives matter...

Raging Penguin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:30 pm If only the alphabet ideology was as inclusive as is professed, this forcing of what comes across as mindless compliance is damaging society to a similar extent as the other mentioned vices. If x, y, z is not agreed then it is deemed as bigotry, hate speech (another biased by design tool) e.c.t. with the irony being missed in most cases.

perhaps ideology should be separate from events that are open to everybody, narrative removed and keep the melting pot simply as it is.

otherwise it would seem that this would be a slippery slope, next could be something more sinister (arguably), such as supporting terrorist organisations such as black lives matter...