Harry Smith

[the pieman]

I suppose the other question in how do we expect him to develop when he has been around the same set of coaches since youth?

As we stated before there are no fresh outlooks or approaches coming into wigan as they recycle through an existing coach/player set up. George Williams only really looked like his game moved on when he left Wigan

That's not factually stating Wigan cant develop him, but what is anyone going to tell him/show him they haven't already

thats a fair point, and not one anyone else has made thus far in terms of his development, with the same coaching setup

i dont buy into the often Jobs for the Boys analagy used on here, as many major corporations will promote from within. However, at times there is a need to bring in fresh blood or a view from outside. I think Briers was an example of that and when Wane was here Deacon / Harris, or at worst someone who will challenge a decision if they think there may be a better or alternative approach. I suppose a question that can be asked is how are the coaches being developed? In my job i am constantly learning / developing skills or new skills to make sure i have a job and relevant in the job market. I dont know the answer, but is there a grading structure for assistant / coaches, so that they start at level 1 up to level x( and what is the criteria to achieve this). Is the approach to give someone experience and then they can be promoted with (out) revelant skills?

With Matty Peet, i believe we have seen some major changes off the pitch including the re-engagement with the fans, and he delivered a trophy in his 1st season in charge. The challenge for MP now, is not to have us competing but regularly winning the GF as that is the measure of success that many fans expect / demand

[medlocke]

I suppose the other question in how do we expect him to develop when he has been around the same set of coaches since youth?

As we stated before there are no fresh outlooks or approaches coming into wigan as they recycle through an existing coach/player set up. George Williams only really looked like his game moved on when he left Wigan

That's not factually stating Wigan cant develop him, but what is anyone going to tell him/show him they haven't already

thats a fair point, and not one anyone else has made thus far in terms of his development, with the same coaching setup

i dont buy into the often Jobs for the Boys analagy used on here, as many major corporations will promote from within. However, at times there is a need to bring in fresh blood or a view from outside. I think Briers was an example of that and when Wane was here Deacon / Harris, or at worst someone who will challenge a decision if they think there may be a better or alternative approach. I suppose a question that can be asked is how are the coaches being developed? In my job i am constantly learning / developing skills or new skills to make sure i have a job and relevant in the job market. I dont know the answer, but is there a grading structure for assistant / coaches, so that they start at level 1 up to level x( and what is the criteria to achieve this). Is the approach to give someone experience and then they can be promoted with (out) revelant skills?

With Matty Peet, i believe we have seen some major changes off the pitch including the re-engagement with the fans, and he delivered a trophy in his 1st season in charge. The challenge for MP now, is not to have us competing but regularly winning the GF as that is the measure of success that many fans expect / demand

But would he have won it without the help and fresh ideas from Briers

[the pieman]

I suppose the other question in how do we expect him to develop when he has been around the same set of coaches since youth?

As we stated before there are no fresh outlooks or approaches coming into wigan as they recycle through an existing coach/player set up. George Williams only really looked like his game moved on when he left Wigan

That's not factually stating Wigan cant develop him, but what is anyone going to tell him/show him they haven't already

thats a fair point, and not one anyone else has made thus far in terms of his development, with the same coaching setup

i dont buy into the often Jobs for the Boys analagy used on here, as many major corporations will promote from within. However, at times there is a need to bring in fresh blood or a view from outside. I think Briers was an example of that and when Wane was here Deacon / Harris, or at worst someone who will challenge a decision if they think there may be a better or alternative approach. I suppose a question that can be asked is how are the coaches being developed? In my job i am constantly learning / developing skills or new skills to make sure i have a job and relevant in the job market. I dont know the answer, but is there a grading structure for assistant / coaches, so that they start at level 1 up to level x( and what is the criteria to achieve this). Is the approach to give someone experience and then they can be promoted with (out) revelant skills?

With Matty Peet, i believe we have seen some major changes off the pitch including the re-engagement with the fans, and he delivered a trophy in his 1st season in charge. The challenge for MP now, is not to have us competing but regularly winning the GF as that is the measure of success that many fans expect / demand

But would he have won it without the help and fresh ideas from Briers

we will never be able to answer that cos Briers was here. If you look at how Wigan played or performed on the day, most will probably agree it was a relatively poor performance, but we got over the line and won the game. We cant say, all the good games were because Briers was here, because there were plenty of poor performances too last year, but not include him in the criticism. There is no doubt that Briers has a fantastic rugby brain and would add a different dimension to our attack, but would many argue that O'Loughlin or Leuluai dont have good rugby brains, given both have played at the top level for almost 20 years

[Soul Kitchen]

Is harry Smith the future long term half back if so we're in for a terrible future. Too slow predictable and kicking is getting worse each week. We need to invest in a half back.

Get back oer Billinge Hill and stop making a vee tit of yourself!

[morley pie eater]

Cue the "Shaun Edwards was good enough at 23" argument.

I agree with all of you. Smith is good but needs support.

What about the 14 Origin players I mentioned?

[medlocke]

Cue the "Shaun Edwards was good enough at 23" argument.

I agree with all of you. Smith is good but needs support.

What about the 14 Origin players I mentioned?

What you laughing for, 14 players between the age of 20 and 24 all better than Harry and playing Origin, He should be established now and not seen as a prospect

[morley pie eater]

Watching Harry's body language and expressions, I'd say he's an introvert. If so, he could be internalising his mistakes and this may have a big effect on his play, resulting in things like kicking out on the full.

I've said before, he's not like Andy Greg or Luke Gale who strutted around and dominated team-mates.

If I'm right, the question is, does this mean he's a failure, or just that he needs handling differently by the coaches? Taking goal-kicking responsibility off him for instance might be away of realeasing some of the pressure he puts himself under. Having a half-back partner to shoulder some responsibility could be another, or getting a mentor who understands the way he thinks and can talk him through some of his concerns.

The lad has ability, a fantastic kicking game - long, high and short - and a good rugby brain. He's gone through the mill under Lam and with all the injuries and changes we've been through. I think we should cut him some slack. Good halves are hard to come by.

[Wiganer Ted]

Harry is a very good player. Like all half backs he needs a good powerful pack of forwards in front of him. Our current pack is neither good or powerful.
With the injuries and absentees the current pack is small and getting pushed around each week. As the personnel isn't going to change then the game plan and tactics must. Same old tactics and game plan will produce the same results as the past few weeks.

Get a big, strong and mobile pack and we'll see a very different Harry Smith.
As the tv pundits keep banging on about our goal kicking problem it's also caused by the fact we can only score on the edges, meaning a conversion attempt from very wide out.

This so called "goal kicking problem" is another effect of having a pack that can't make yards down the middle and control play by being on the front foot.

Another of Harry's problems is that he seems to play with a different stand off each week. Quite a lot to sort out before we see the very best of our Harry.

[DaveO]

I suppose the other question in how do we expect him to develop when he has been around the same set of coaches since youth?

As we stated before there are no fresh outlooks or approaches coming into wigan as they recycle through an existing coach/player set up. George Williams only really looked like his game moved on when he left Wigan

That's not factually stating Wigan cant develop him, but what is anyone going to tell him/show him they haven't already

thats a fair point, and not one anyone else has made thus far in terms of his development, with the same coaching setup

i dont buy into the often Jobs for the Boys analagy used on here, as many major corporations will promote from within.

Poor analogy. Giving a player a first team coaching role as soon as he hangs up his boots is not a promotion. It’s giving them a totally different job.

TL and Lockers went from players to assistant first team coaches. They weren’t “promoted” as in they were not doing some junior coaching roles for a few years after stopping playing and were then given a first team assistants role because they showed aptitude for being a coach. They went straight into a first team coaching role. Jobs for the boys it is.

[josie andrews]

I suppose the other question in how do we expect him to develop when he has been around the same set of coaches since youth?

As we stated before there are no fresh outlooks or approaches coming into wigan as they recycle through an existing coach/player set up. George Williams only really looked like his game moved on when he left Wigan

That's not factually stating Wigan cant develop him, but what is anyone going to tell him/show him they haven't already

thats a fair point, and not one anyone else has made thus far in terms of his development, with the same coaching setup

i dont buy into the often Jobs for the Boys analagy used on here, as many major corporations will promote from within.

Poor analogy. Giving a player a first team coaching role as soon as he hangs up his boots is not a promotion. It’s giving them a totally different job.

TL and Lockers went from players to assistant first team coaches. They weren’t “promoted” as in they were not doing some junior coaching roles for a few years after stopping playing and were then given a first team assistants role because they showed aptitude for being a coach. They went straight into a first team coaching role. Jobs for the boys it is.

Lockers spent a few years with the academy teams.