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Re: david vaealiki vs kevi...
Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 1:26 am
by Likely_Lad
Admittedly, Dave V has been poor since he joined, but I'd still say he's our only centre guaranteed a starting place when fit. We critisice him for being lazy yet he still has class that we have seen the odd flash of since he joined.
But although I don't think Kev Brown is a god send or anything, I think he's a decent player and although his hand-work isn't as good as Dave V's his foot-work is twice as good which can be equally effective in setting up tries.
At the end of the day neither are perfect or for that matter even ideal, but I would still go for Dave V just because I don't think other teams target him as a weak player and normally goes about his job soundly, albeit unspectacularly, most games he plays.
Re: david vaealiki vs kevi...
Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 1:29 am
by jinkin jimmy
It's a tough choice between 2 mediocre players. I'll give you an easier question. Would you have faith in a club chairman that made DV our equal highest player at the club, bearing in mind the same chairman signed Jerry on the same money?
Re: david vaealiki vs kevi...
Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 2:02 am
by DaveO
jinkin jimmy posted:
It's a tough choice between 2 mediocre players. I'll give you an easier question. Would you have faith in a club chairman that made DV our equal highest player at the club, bearing in mind the same chairman signed Jerry on the same money?
DV was an NZ standard test player which is exactly the sort of signing people wanted. The fact he is a shadow of the player he was has nothing to do with Mo but he gets the blame for signing him on a high wage (how much is he paid by the way?).
Hinsight is a wonderful thing. You have come out strongly with the opinion that the players are the ones to blame for our predicament which is not unreasonable so I think it's obvious where to direct the critisim.
Dave
Re: david vaealiki vs kevi...
Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 2:46 am
by waterside glens
i go with DV and hope nobby can get the best out of him
Re: david vaealiki vs kevi...
Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 10:02 am
by Doveoverdave
DaveO posted:
jinkin jimmy posted:
It's a tough choice between 2 mediocre players. I'll give you an easier question. Would you have faith in a club chairman that made DV our equal highest player at the club, bearing in mind the same chairman signed Jerry on the same money?
DV was an NZ standard test player which is exactly the sort of signing people wanted. The fact he is a shadow of the player he was has nothing to do with Mo but he gets the blame for signing him on a high wage (how much is he paid by the way?).
Hinsight is a wonderful thing. You have come out strongly with the opinion that the players are the ones to blame for our predicament which is not unreasonable so I think it's obvious where to direct the critisim.
Dave
RESEARCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just because both Jerry and DV have represented NZ in the past doesn't automatically qualify them to be top class players.
Both these two players look incapable of competing at SL level and this has been the case since they arrived.
A long hard clinical look into their fitness, mindset etc. should have been taken prior to signing them. It would appear that whom ever was responsible for signing these two just did the same analysis that you have done.
They have represented NZ so they must be good enough!
Clearly not.
Re: david vaealiki vs kevi...
Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 5:12 am
by Vaealikis Girl
Doveoverdave posted:
RESEARCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just because both Jerry and DV have represented NZ in the past doesn't automatically qualify them to be top class players.
Both these two players look incapable of competing at SL level and this has been the case since they arrived.
A long hard clinical look into their fitness, mindset etc. should have been taken prior to signing them. It would appear that whom ever was responsible for signing these two just did the same analysis that you have done.
They have represented NZ so they must be good enough!
Clearly not.
Vaealiki was not only a test player. He was also classed as one of the top centres in the NRL and was known for having great strength in tackles, particularly in the legs, which meant he broke out of plenty of tackles each game and the ones he didn't break out of he was usually able to offload. He was a very dangerous player (to the opposition not his own team). If you look back at his performances for Parra it is not hard to see why a coach would want him at their club. Perhaps the fact that he'd just sustained probably the worst injury for a player to get should have been taken into account. With that injury it was doubtful that he'd ever get back to exactly the same form, at least not the same strength in the legs.
All i'm saying is that i really don't think you can blame the coach/chairman for Vaealiki not being up to standard. He bought a player who had been doing great things in the NRL and for NZ. At least 4 other NRL clubs made Vaealiki an offer so he wasn't the only one who wanted him in their team.
Same goes for Jerry. He was one of the biggest and hardest running props in the NRL. If you ran into Jerry you were pretty much guaranteed to come off second best. I'm sure many people would have loved him at their club.
Many people were excited to find out these 2 players were coming to Wigan because they'd been great players in the NRL. I don't think the chairman can be expected to know that they wouldn't live up to reputation.
Re: david vaealiki vs kevi...
Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 10:05 am
by Doveoverdave
VG posted;
Perhaps the fact that he'd just sustained probably the worst injury for a player to get should have been taken into account.
Exactly my point.
With that injury it was doubtful that he'd ever get back to exactly the same form,
Exactly my point.
i really don't think you can blame the coach/chairman for Vaealiki not being up to standard
Why not?
Given the above circumstances.
Same goes for Jerry.
This guy is finished and should be retired on injury grounds - useless.The worst prop in memeory at Wigan.
We keep signing NRL crocks.
My how the standards have plummeted over there with you raving about these two misfits.
Many people were excited to find out these 2 players were coming to Wigan
Really?
Most fans have learned not to get excited over the Aussies/NZ coming to Wigan. They appear to here with nothing to prove, take our money and deliver very little in return.
It is the single most important factor in our current plight is the crop of blood sucking antipideons that on our books.
Re: david vaealiki vs kevi...
Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 10:10 am
by DaveO
Doveoverdave posted:
RESEARCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Vaealiki's girl's post answers the above completely as far as I can see.
As I said it is only hindsight that people can employ to blame the club for signing DV and Seu Seu.
I await Mo getting the blame if Barrett is a flop, no doubt due to lack of research.
Dave
Re: david vaealiki vs kevi...
Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 10:47 am
by Matthew
I think that most of the issues have been covered in this thread - so I won't go over all of them again. However a couple of points...
Wasn't Lyon the other centre at para when DV was there? Playing alongside someone as creative as him surely made DV look a better player?
Just because a player has been injured doesn't mean they are finished. True it is a possibility, but how many times as Farrell been badly injured? Most people on here would welcome him back with open arms.
It seems to me that DV's problem is either lack of effort (which unless he intends to retire after Wigan seems unlikely) or lack of confidence/fear of being badly injured again. Robbie Paul has never been the same since he smashed his arm.
Kevin Brown probably does create more than DV - however he plays high risk football - hence the interceptions and spilled ball and his defence is at times woeful. He is too small as well - someone needs to lock him in a gym during the close season and make him build some muscle. Brett Dallas is short and it never hindered him (apart from all the high tackles).
Neither player is delivering the high standard of play that we expected/hoped for. However DV is paid considerably more than KB, so unfortunately if the question relates to which player should leave the team; then it has to be DV
Re: david vaealiki vs kevi...
Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 11:13 am
by Fraggle
Doveoverdave posted:
VG posted;
Same goes for Jerry.
This guy is finished and should be retired on injury grounds - useless.The worst prop in memeory at Wigan.
Obviously your standards are different to mine, or your memory's a bit shorter, but there's no way SeuSeu is worse than Brady Malam, Brett Goldspink, Harvey Howard or Ricky Bibey.
