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GeoffN posted:

Fujiman posted:

JIMH posted:
That is what happens Fujiman. If two players are running at full pelt and the passes the ball to where the player was at the very moment he released it the other player will have run straight past it. The players momentum means that when the ball is passed at speed it will actually travel forwrd in relation to the ground. If you have sky plus or a video have a look at some passes using your pause button

While i understand what your saying but if you pass a ball back it goes back.Using another example i have never seen a footballer going at full speed cross a ball back from the dead ball line and by the time it reachs the penalty area it has gone past the goal. Whats the difference?

It might help to think of a more extreme example: if a plane drops a bomb, it will land far ahead of the point where it was dropped because the bomb initially has the same forward speed as the plane.
Another one you can try for yourself; throw something backwards out of the window of a moving car and watch where it lands, relative to the point where you threw it.

If you're athletic enough, you can actually do the same thing with a ball yourself. Run at full speed, and aim directly at a target to one side as you go past it. The ball will land well ahead of the target.

JIMH posted:
im no expert on physics fuji but can only think that because the ball is already on the ground in football the same rule doesnt apply as we are talking about momentum in relation to the ground i.e. the ball is in the air in rugby but the football is already on the ground.

Fujiman posted:
Not athletic enough to try that GeoffN. The plane example is interesting but the object is travelling towards the ground as opposed to travelling parallel to it.You've got me on the car one though, will have to have a think about it. BTW how do you explain my example of the footballer?

GeoffN posted:

Fujiman posted:
Not athletic enough to try that GeoffN. The plane example is interesting but the object is travelling towards the ground as opposed to travelling parallel to it.You've got me on the car one though, will have to have a think about it. BTW how do you explain my example of the footballer?

It's not easy to explain further without using some maths; so here goes.

A player is running forwards at 10 metres/second (yes, it's Offiah!).
He passes the ball BACKWARDS (relative to himself) at 5m/s. This is a legal pass.
The ball still travels forwards relative to the ground at 5m/s, because the ball initially had the same speed as the player.

JIMH posted:
I've just sent Phil Clarke an email via the sky sports website, I'm fed up of the momentum rule so decided to have a bit of a rant!! copy of email below.

Phil,

After watching this weeks boots‘n’all I would like to bring up the subject of the forward pass/momentum rule. The way I see the rule is that it explains as you said yourself “simple Physics” if someone is running in a forward direction when they pass the ball it will travel in a forward motion in relation to the floor, in my opinion this is the momentum rule (the ball carries the players momentum) The problem I have with they way the leeds try was shown on the show and the way Stevo constantly describes the rule is that if an attacking player chose to throw the ball deliberately over the defensive line yet he ran forward quickly and got level or ahead of the ball before it landed or was caught by the other attacker would that be deemed as a forward pass?? According to Stevo, eddie and yourself it wouldn’t. Are we going to see a new attacking move where the ball is thrown over the defensive line but the passing player running and catching up it to make it legal?? I doubt that’s what the rule intended but the way you lads on sky describe it means it could be a legal pass. In my opinion a forward pass is determined on the direction the ball comes out of the players hand, the momentum rule relates to “simple physics"



Jim from Preston

What do you think?
When it was shown and described on TV the way they did, I thought exactly the same thing as you Jim.
If this is the interpretation of the rule then instead of chipping over with the chase, just lob the ball forward, make sure your infront of the ball before it lands and HEY PRESTO!!!.