Page 21 of 33

Re: Joel to Union

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:31 pm
by cpwigan
thegimble wrote:Tell Luca Modric a contract does not matter.
Modric is 1 of how many who proved the contrary. If RL fans want to compare Modric to Tomkins which is silly IMO, how many clubs can spend £50 million, hence why Tevez is stuck in limbo; transfer moves have windows, that window is now closed; who is to say Modric will be at Spurs next season?; has Modric been on fire this season?

Re: Joel to Union

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:39 pm
by TrueBlueWarrior
cpwigan wrote: :doz: :conf: I cannot believe people even believe or think a contract matters. What planet are you on and are you not just a tad hypocritical, nay deluded.

Whatever job you do I defy anybody to tell me that they have not encountered either a situation where they left a position because somebody offered them a better opportunity, a higher wage AND/OR where you consider you are being treated badly in your present position, under valued, abused SO you move. Whatsmore, life is not fixed, it is dynamic. Your circumstances 6 months, 6 weeks ago may be very different to those today.

Long contracts are a 2 way street. 1) The club is protected from losing everything with no compensation 2) The player gets some security, a slightly better deal financially

BUT let's not kid ourselves SPORT is a brutal business. It is short and at the whim of a coach / owner your career can nose dived and end in oblivion.

There is no loyalty in sport. There never has been. Fans are no better YET they want their 'heroes' to act in a farcically loyal masochistic self harming manner. Get real :roll:

If IL or whomever wanted to make a stand why not use a time with mass media presence to start to affect change. Obviously not hijack the key news but slowly start to talk about raising the cap, retention of key young players, central contracts. It is time for those with power and influence to stand up and be counted AND then you may be able to stop worrying. At the moment RL has its head in the sand and needs to look at the bigger picture. Whining about a meaningless contract achieves nothing.
:eusa2:

At last someone living in the real world, I said as much on a post earlier on in the thread.

DaveO, I do appreciate and understand what you are saying and in a truly morale world, all contracts would be adhered to but unfortunately we don't live in that world.

In many cases yes players end up 'shitting' on the club but, trust me, in many cases also clubs will not waste any time 'shitting' on players.

Re: Joel to Union

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:43 pm
by thegimble
cpwigan wrote:
thegimble wrote:Tell Luca Modric a contract does not matter.
Modric is 1 of how many who proved the contrary. If RL fans want to compare Modric to Tomkins which is silly IMO, how many clubs can spend £50 million, hence why Tevez is stuck in limbo; transfer moves have windows, that window is now closed; who is to say Modric will be at Spurs next season?; has Modric been on fire this season?
Tevez is stuck in Limbo not because of the transfer fee on him but of his attitude and his agent (Slimy individual). Also the guy is homesick that is a known fact. So no South American team can afford him.

i am not suggesting that we keep hold of JT long term but do what Alex Ferguson and Rafa Benitez did when they got Ronaldo and Alonso to stay for 1 more year that they would be allowed to go when they could get replacements in. Why should we bow to the RFU when we lose a player and have no chance of replacing him until 2013.

If he wants to go it should be on Wigan's terms not his.

Re: Joel to Union

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:03 am
by cpwigan
Wigan have decided that rather than keep a player wanting to leave they will let him go provided the compensation is what they want so that IMO is on our terms. If those terms are not met, Joel stays. Hence, why the long contract was/is a good deal and remains so.

I do know Joel had heated words with a club official a few weeks back when he was wrongly to the best of my knowledge accused of something he did not do. I have also heard that Joel's head has been turned and he has changed. I do know Wigan have lost a potential future captain (hence why he was in the leadership group) and a very talented player who sadly I fear will not be the last NOR IMO if we had this horrendous restriction of trade salary cap in operation would Hanley, Edwards and co. If need be the players need to start to think about strike action unless the cap is raised.

Re: Joel to Union

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:18 am
by DaveO
cpwigan wrote: :doz: :conf: I cannot believe people even believe or think a contract matters. What planet are you on and are you not just a tad hypocritical, nay deluded.

Whatever job you do I defy anybody to tell me that they have not encountered either a situation where they left a position because somebody offered them a better opportunity, a higher wage AND/OR where you consider you are being treated badly in your present position, under valued, abused SO you move. Whatsmore, life is not fixed, it is dynamic. Your circumstances 6 months, 6 weeks ago may be very different to those today.
Let's nail this one once and for all shall we? There are two sorts of employment out there. Normal employment where you are an employee of a firm and work to a notice period and fixed term contract work where you are not. I spent quite a while working as an IT contractor early in my career on fixed term contracts. They were highly paid and there was plenty of demand for my services. What I and others doing the same did NOT do was start say a two year contract and then leave after a month because a better contract was on offer down the road. That was just not the done thing. If you did that your reputation went down the pan as your clients projects came off the rails. What you did was see the deal out and look for a better one next time. You could afford to do this because you were being well paid. THAT Is the real world of fixed term contracted employment and how highly paid people who are responsible behave and those are the parallels employment-wise. Not what you say above.
Long contracts are a 2 way street. 1) The club is protected from losing everything with no compensation 2) The player gets some security, a slightly better deal financially
And the club can make long term plans which are screwed if people walk away. And as to "some" security I wish someone would guarantee my employment for five years.
BUT let's not kid ourselves SPORT is a brutal business. It is short and at the whim of a coach / owner your career can nose dived and end in oblivion.

There is no loyalty in sport. There never has been. Fans are no better YET they want their 'heroes' to act in a farcically loyal masochistic self harming manner. Get real :roll:
It has nothing to do with loyalty. I do not expect any player to dedicate their lives to Wigan out of loyalty. If a player wants to leave after his contract is up then fine. In the meantime player contracts should enter the real world where they are honoured and if they don't want to get stuck on a five year deal then they should not agree to them in the first place.


Re: Joel to Union

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:28 am
by DaveO
cpwigan wrote:Wigan have decided that rather than keep a player wanting to leave they will let him go provided the compensation is what they want so that IMO is on our terms. If those terms are not met, Joel stays.
So Wigan can enforce the contract and will keep a player who has asked to leave.


Re: Joel to Union

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:30 am
by Mike
If joel is on around 70k say, and lenegan is going for value of contract plus 50% compensation, we'd be looking at something like 70x4x1.5 = 420K. Not enough IMO, we should be up near the 1M mark given the length of outstanding contract.

Also, to those stating the approach is illegal, i believe that only applies within a sport ,not between different sports.

Also ,remember that some of our great players were enticed to wigan with a substantial increase in wages ,not for a love of the game or the club. Boston and Hanley?

Re: Joel to Union

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:36 am
by cpwigan
Mike wrote:If joel is on around 70k say, and lenegan is going for value of contract plus 50% compensation, we'd be looking at something like 70x4x1.5 = 420K. Not enough IMO, we should be up near the 1M mark given the length of outstanding contract.

Also, to those stating the approach is illegal, i believe that only applies within a sport ,not between different sports.

Also ,remember that some of our great players were enticed to wigan with a substantial increase in wages ,not for a love of the game or the club. Boston and Hanley?
Your maths is pretty good Mike :)

Dave this is RL. Clubs cannot afford to let players rot on principles. Why do you think Lindsay worked so hard to end the feud between Hanley and Lowe.

Re: Joel to Union

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:36 am
by DaveO
Tbh if he goes i hope he breaks his cruciate knee ligament in both knees. Have no time for people like him who will jump asap at the first sign of a bigger pay check.
I would not go that far but I would be quite happy if he failed. Serve him right but may also put RU off flinging money at our players.

He'd probably make a go of it though. :eh:

Re: Joel to Union

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:47 am
by Nezza Faz
There's never been a legal reason between different sports to breach contracts, as far as I re-call. Hence many players have gone to rah rah in the middle of contracts - the massive case was SBW who actually walked out on his.

So far as I see on this, a players contract is merely a starting point for negotiations to begin !