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Wigan_forever19​85​ wrote:

Let's nail this one once and for all shall we? There are two sorts of employment out there. Normal employment where you are an employee of a firm and work to a notice period and fixed term contract work where you are not. I spent quite a while working as an IT contractor early in my career on fixed term contracts. They were highly paid and there was plenty of demand for my services. What I and others doing the same did NOT do was start say a two year contract and then leave after a month because a better contract was on offer down the road. That was just not the done thing. If you did that your reputation went down the pan as your clients projects came off the rails. What you did was see the deal out and look for a better one next time. You could afford to do this because you were being well paid. THAT Is the real world of fixed term contracted employment and how highly paid people who are responsible behave and those are the parallels employment-wise. Not what you say above.

Sorry DaveO this borderlines naivety and while i understand the statement of your argument this is the REAL world and things just dont happen that way.

I also work in I.T and have had several contractors leave for bigger contracts but i digress as this is not relevant nor applicable to sporting contracts.

As CP says the reasons for a "contract" in sport is to make sure a club doesnt lose a player for nothing, thats the be all and end all, id like to see a stat on the completion rate of contracts as im guessing it would be pretty low and only boosted by players of mediocrity that arent sort after assets.

In I.T breaking your leg couldnt/wouldnt end your career and you arent going to be retiring at the short end of 30. Sportsmen and Women need to earn the most they can in their careers as it can be over in a heartbeat with most not trained in any other form of work.

Barrett left early (not forgetting he also left early to ge to us) i dont rememeber anyone making a stink about that? ok he'd done 2 of 3 years but by your logic he should of stayed the extra year and been sent to reserves if he didnt like it?

Madge left early should he have been sent to coach the reserves while wane took over?

i just dont understand how anyone of your intelligence DaveO would even think that these contracts mean anything other than sealing compensation deals for the club

This is exactly what I have been trying to point out, so thank you. :eusa2:

Does he actually want to leave? or is it just too good an offer to turn down?. I think there is a difference and personally, when your career could be over in an instant you need to earn as many bucks as possible to set you up for the future.I would like to think joel falls into the latter category.

The RFL need to pull their finger out. They are the ones to blame in all this, not wigan and certainly not Joel.

At least Sam is staying

http://www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague ... ml&BID=480

Wigan_forever19​85​ wrote: Sorry DaveO this borderlines naivety and while i understand the statement of your argument this is the REAL world and things just dont happen that way.

I also work in I.T and have had several contractors leave for bigger contracts but i digress as this is not relevant nor applicable to sporting contracts.

People liken what Joel is doing to everyday employment. The argument goes if you in your job were offered more money you would resign. The fact of the matter is being a sportsman is neither a normal job nor are the contracts that go with them administered the same as in the normal job market. My experience as a contractor is closer to that than normal salaried employment.

It is also true that in soccer there are several examples of players being held to their contracts. At the moment we have Spurs and Man City doing it but there have been other examples of clubs holding players to their contract not necessarily for the full term but until it suited the club that it was OK to leave.

So people who keep gong on about the real world ought to take a look at it and see that what I just described IS the real world.

As CP says the reasons for a "contract" in sport is to make sure a club doesnt lose a player for nothing, thats the be all and end all, id like to see a stat on the completion rate of contracts as im guessing it would be pretty low and only boosted by players of mediocrity that arent sort after assets.

I think you would be guessing incorrectly and in fact it is the norm for players to complete their contracts.

Barrett left early (not forgetting he also left early to ge to us) i dont rememeber anyone making a stink about that? ok he'd done 2 of 3 years but by your logic he should of stayed the extra year and been sent to reserves if he didnt like it?

I certainly made a stink about it! In any case apart from Riddell who was let go for compassionate reasons a year early (not to go for more moneny) who else recently has not seen their contract out at Wigan? No one of note as far as I am aware. In fact I think it was only last season we had a number of players complete one contract and sign another including Joel. There is also not one player who is leaving this year who did not complete their contract (unless Joel goes).

Madge left early should he have been sent to coach the reserves while wane took over?

Madge did not leave early. Despite IL saying when he signed him it was an unqualified three year deal it turned out it was not and the option for the third was in favour of either party and he chose to exercise his option. I don't agree with him doing it but it is not the same thing as breaking the contract.

i just dont understand how anyone of your intelligence DaveO would even think that these contracts mean anything other than sealing compensation deals for the club

Because I can give you examples where they are enforced. Even Saints kept Eastmond until his contract was up.

thegimble wrote:At least Sam is staying

http://www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague ... ml&BID=480

For now

cpwigan wrote:

thegimble wrote:At least Sam is staying

http://www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague ... ml&BID=480

For now

Better than him going now.

Jesus wept

A RL career I think on average is 9. something years. Most careers outside sport are considerably longer. Sportsmen/women have to accrue as much as they can in a very short timeframe. Hence comparisons are silly. Even better, go play a joke sport, RU and post your career hey presto you have fantastic earning opportunities beyond playing. I believe Jason Robinson is now in the clothing business. Never seen Ellery Hanley clothing? Sean Long hair products?

A contract works two ways in sport. Sometimes clubs want rid before your contract is up. As you get older, you knock on ILs door and say, Ian I want a 5 year deal, Ian lol, your 30, you can have 1 year with an option in our favour. Clubs look after themselves, players look after themselves. The contract protects both parties but it is not set in stone. Personal crisis? the contract can be ignored. One ex Wigan player is still trying to recover 30K he claims Wigan RLFC under IL owe him.

Everybody wants a successful club, you can only get that with happy players. Joel wants to leave so proviso Wigan get what they want he can go. Sicl and tired of hearing garbage about Modric / Tevez because that is what it is garbage.

The big question is NOT what Wigan should or should not do BUT what RL should be doing. A far more important question, one where players have been repeatedly ignored incidentally, one where owner want the kudos of ownership on the cheap. Some fans need to stop spouting unimportant garbage and look at the bigger question, how can we make born and bread League players want to stay in RL.

cpwigan wrote: :doz: :conf: I cannot believe people even believe or think a contract matters. What planet are you on and are you not just a tad hypocritical, nay deluded.

Whatever job you do I defy anybody to tell me that they have not encountered either a situation where they left a position because somebody offered them a better opportunity, a higher wage AND/OR where you consider you are being treated badly in your present position, under valued, abused SO you move. Whatsmore, life is not fixed, it is dynamic. Your circumstances 6 months, 6 weeks ago may be very different to those today.

Long contracts are a 2 way street. 1) The club is protected from losing everything with no compensation 2) The player gets some security, a slightly better deal financially

BUT let's not kid ourselves SPORT is a brutal business. It is short and at the whim of a coach / owner your career can nose dived and end in oblivion.

There is no loyalty in sport. There never has been. Fans are no better YET they want their 'heroes' to act in a farcically loyal masochistic self harming manner. Get real

If IL or whomever wanted to make a stand why not use a time with mass media presence to start to affect change. Obviously not hijack the key news but slowly start to talk about raising the cap, retention of key young players, central contracts. It is time for those with power and influence to stand up and be counted AND then you may be able to stop worrying. At the moment RL has its head in the sand and needs to look at the bigger picture. Whining about a meaningless contract achieves nothing.

Before you wrote this I was just thinking of replying last night along the lines of the very subject matter you have just raised CP, and YES a contract does matter in the line of work I carry out and the locations that I work.
My CV has the words "CONTRACT COMPLETED" on all of the jobs I have undertaken for the very reason I damm well completed the contact work that I was assigned to do.
On numerous occassions I have been offered silly money to jump on from a current position to undertake work elsewhere, yet I have always declined.
On every job I truly value my employer and finish my projects, then move on and in return my then ex employers ask me to return with new project options.
This has guaranteed me near continious work throughout my 25 years of working in some very desirable locations.

Panchitta Marra wrote:

cpwigan wrote: :doz: :conf: I cannot believe people even believe or think a contract matters. What planet are you on and are you not just a tad hypocritical, nay deluded.

Whatever job you do I defy anybody to tell me that they have not encountered either a situation where they left a position because somebody offered them a better opportunity, a higher wage AND/OR where you consider you are being treated badly in your present position, under valued, abused SO you move. Whatsmore, life is not fixed, it is dynamic. Your circumstances 6 months, 6 weeks ago may be very different to those today.

Long contracts are a 2 way street. 1) The club is protected from losing everything with no compensation 2) The player gets some security, a slightly better deal financially

BUT let's not kid ourselves SPORT is a brutal business. It is short and at the whim of a coach / owner your career can nose dived and end in oblivion.

There is no loyalty in sport. There never has been. Fans are no better YET they want their 'heroes' to act in a farcically loyal masochistic self harming manner. Get real

If IL or whomever wanted to make a stand why not use a time with mass media presence to start to affect change. Obviously not hijack the key news but slowly start to talk about raising the cap, retention of key young players, central contracts. It is time for those with power and influence to stand up and be counted AND then you may be able to stop worrying. At the moment RL has its head in the sand and needs to look at the bigger picture. Whining about a meaningless contract achieves nothing.

Before you wrote this I was just thinking of replying last night along the lines of the very subject matter you have just raised CP, and YES a contract does matter in the line of work I carry out and the locations that I work.
My CV has the words "CONTRACT COMPLETED" on all of the jobs I have undertaken for the very reason I damm well completed the contact work that I was assigned to do.
On numerous occassions I have been offered silly money to jump on from a current position to undertake work elsewhere, yet I have always declined.
On every job I truly value my employer and finish my projects, then move on and in return my then ex employers ask me to return with new project options.
This has guaranteed me near continious work throughout my 25 years of working in some very desirable locations.

Alas you are not a sportsman PM so none of that matters or is relevant

thegimble wrote:At least Sam is staying

http://www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague ... ml&BID=480

Fixed your link

It was also reported on Granada Reports sport news