Joel to Union

[Panchitta Marra]

:doz: :conf: I cannot believe people even believe or think a contract matters. What planet are you on and are you not just a tad hypocritical, nay deluded.

Whatever job you do I defy anybody to tell me that they have not encountered either a situation where they left a position because somebody offered them a better opportunity, a higher wage AND/OR where you consider you are being treated badly in your present position, under valued, abused SO you move. Whatsmore, life is not fixed, it is dynamic. Your circumstances 6 months, 6 weeks ago may be very different to those today.

Long contracts are a 2 way street. 1) The club is protected from losing everything with no compensation 2) The player gets some security, a slightly better deal financially

BUT let's not kid ourselves SPORT is a brutal business. It is short and at the whim of a coach / owner your career can nose dived and end in oblivion.

There is no loyalty in sport. There never has been. Fans are no better YET they want their 'heroes' to act in a farcically loyal masochistic self harming manner. Get real

If IL or whomever wanted to make a stand why not use a time with mass media presence to start to affect change. Obviously not hijack the key news but slowly start to talk about raising the cap, retention of key young players, central contracts. It is time for those with power and influence to stand up and be counted AND then you may be able to stop worrying. At the moment RL has its head in the sand and needs to look at the bigger picture. Whining about a meaningless contract achieves nothing.

Before you wrote this I was just thinking of replying last night along the lines of the very subject matter you have just raised CP, and YES a contract does matter in the line of work I carry out and the locations that I work.
My CV has the words "CONTRACT COMPLETED" on all of the jobs I have undertaken for the very reason I damm well completed the contact work that I was assigned to do.
On numerous occassions I have been offered silly money to jump on from a current position to undertake work elsewhere, yet I have always declined.
On every job I truly value my employer and finish my projects, then move on and in return my then ex employers ask me to return with new project options.
This has guaranteed me near continious work throughout my 25 years of working in some very desirable locations.

Alas you are not a sportsman PM so none of that matters or is relevant

Whatever CP.
The value of a contract is relevant to a true professional and not just the money irrespective of your line of work.

[cpwigan]

Before you wrote this I was just thinking of replying last night along the lines of the very subject matter you have just raised CP, and YES a contract does matter in the line of work I carry out and the locations that I work.
My CV has the words "CONTRACT COMPLETED" on all of the jobs I have undertaken for the very reason I damm well completed the contact work that I was assigned to do.
On numerous occassions I have been offered silly money to jump on from a current position to undertake work elsewhere, yet I have always declined.
On every job I truly value my employer and finish my projects, then move on and in return my then ex employers ask me to return with new project options.
This has guaranteed me near continious work throughout my 25 years of working in some very desirable locations.

Alas you are not a sportsman PM so none of that matters or is relevant

Whatever CP.
The value of a contract is relevant to a true professional and not just the money irrespective of your line of work.

No that is a view personal to you PM and not universal even in normal working life and certainly not so in the sporting world.

[butt monkey]

A RL career I think on average is 9. something years. Most careers outside sport are considerably longer. Sportsmen/women have to accrue as much as they can in a very short timeframe. Hence comparisons are silly. Even better, go play a joke sport, RU and post your career hey presto you have fantastic earning opportunities beyond playing.

Which is why players employ agents to get them the best contracts available for them. Not just cut and leave when a new potential employer arrives on the scene.

A contract works two ways in sport. Sometimes clubs want rid before your contract is up. As you get older, you knock on ILs door and say, Ian I want a 5 year deal, Ian lol, your 30, you can have 1 year with an option in our favour. Clubs look after themselves, players look after themselves. The contract protects both parties but it is not set in stone. Personal crisis? the contract can be ignored. One ex Wigan player is still trying to recover 30K he claims Wigan RLFC under IL owe him.

Of course contracts are two-way. Who said they weren't? I bring to your attention this news

England internationals Richie Myler and Ryan Atkins are among five Warrington players to agree contract extensions at the Halliwell Jones Stadium.

Ex-Salford scrum-half Myler, 21, and former Wakefield centre Atkins, who both joined the club two years ago, have signed two-year extensions which will keep them at the Wolves until the end of 2015. Utility player Simon Grix, 26, will also be at Warrington for another four years after signing a three-year extension, which will enable him to complete a decade at the club. Welsh international winger Rhys Williams, 21, who was out of contract, has signed a new 12-month deal, and centre Matty Blythe, 22, has committed himself to the club until the end of 201
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,,12209_7238218,00.html

Why have Warrington even bothered to extend deals IF as you say they are worthless? And can be broken just because someone else offers more wages? More to the point, why don't Wigan simply offer more money for any of them and take them off Warrington's hands, as in your words to do otherwise is depriving them of their earning potential?

Everybody wants a successful club, you can only get that with happy players. Joel wants to leave so proviso Wigan get what they want he can go.

He was (I believe) happy at Wigan, until the rugby union club arrived on the scene. Shouldn't the Union club involved have contacted Wigan first and offering a sum of money too good to turn down, hence forcing Wigan to allow Joel to hold talks? Not the other way around.

This is why the likes of Modrik is brought into the discussion (their are parallels if you care to look ) Chelsea during the close season openly pursued through the media a player contracted to Spurs. The player became unsettled (and not because Chelsea are in any major Cup competition more than Spurs either) and he was rumoured to have asked for a move. Spurs rebuffed all approaches for the player and he has since relinquished (for now) his desire to move/hold discussions with Chelsea. I am not saying the player will not move eventually, of course he will, BUT on Spurs terms, not Chelsea's.

Sicl and tired of hearing garbage about Modric / Tevez because that is what it is garbage.

Which makes this statement appear exactly what it is CP. It is not garbage, it is football clubs proving to players that contracts DO mean something even in the money-rich world of the Premier League!

The big question is NOT what Wigan should or should not do BUT what RL should be doing. A far more important question, one where players have been repeatedly ignored incidentally, one where owner want the kudos of ownership on the cheap. Some fans need to stop spouting unimportant garbage and look at the bigger question, how can we make born and bread League players want to stay in RL.

Of course serious questions need asking about the Salary cap, but in this instance it is shutting the gate after the horse has bolted! IF players want to move (as Eastmond has done) then there is NOTHING wrong with him playing Union when his contract has ended. Joel could even sign for megabucks Wire and their flexi-cap . However, you know, as everyone else does this entire situation has been handled VERY BADLY by Joel, his new management company (who I blame entirely for this farce) and the Union club concerned.

[cpwigan]

BM, given none of us know the exact story then how anybody can say if the situation has been handled badly by Joel beggars belief. I do not know, neither do you, nor does anybody else here.

Just like the Wire players you allude to, Joel signed a contract in good faith because A) It suited Wigan as it suits Wire to protect their interests with long term contracts and B) It suited the play. On BOTH COUNTS, AT THE TIME. So at the time a Union club showed no interest, nobody was phoning Joel Tomkins offering him ridiculous money. Circumstances changed. We do not know exact details but we know Joel has an offer, went to Wigan and said I have received an offer, would you release me, Wigan decided yes if our conditions are met. SO AT THIS POINT IN TIME, BOTH PARTIES WILL HAVE TO BE HAPPY FOR A DEAL TO HAPPEN.

Thus far, the only disgruntled people appear to be some holier than thou fans. Most of these fans show as much loyalty to the players as the players show to them I.E Very little if not at all. Nothing more fickle than a sports fan so why expect anything different from players? It is ludicrous to say Joel turn up the opportunity to become a millionaire, set up for life because a few disgruntled fans, most of whom would turn on you and/or forget you at a moments notice say so lol.

And yes, the football comparison is stupid. The market for £50 million footballers is tiny. Even then most moves happen otherwise you end up with the Tevez farce.

If/when Joel T goes good luck to him. Sad to see him go as he was/is a very talented back rower. A potential future captain. However, totally understand why he would go and I garuntee 99% of League will bitch and whine about his decision without considering and acting upon the real issues such as the restrictive salary cap, the lack of a vibrant international game, a healthier domestic competition and so forth.

Whatever Joel Tomkins decides, good luck to him.

[100% Warrior]

Whatever Joel Tomkins decides, good luck to him.

Here, here. Of course, we don't like our top players leaving but we have to understand it's their career and a short one at that.

Jeez, I wish someone would offer me 5 times the wage I earn for the same job

[cpwigan]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 295811.stm

"It came out of the blue but it was one of those opportunities that I couldn't really pass up," he said.

"With the opportunity to go back to my home country and be closer to my family, it was the right time to move, for the possibilities of playing in the NRL and life after rugby."

[Fujiman]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 295811.stm

"It came out of the blue but it was one of those opportunities that I couldn't really pass up," he said.

"With the opportunity to go back to my home country and be closer to my family, it was the right time to move, for the possibilities of playing in the NRL and life after rugby."

"That's if the RFL and clubs don't start working towards making the game better," he added.
He doesn't explain what he means. Financially tactically or both ?

[cpwigan]

I think both Fuji

Even a small season by season increase on the cap would be a step forward. More radical? A 10% salary cap exemption for England squad members provided clubs only have X number of overseas players.

[TonyH]

There's 19 pages on the topic so forgive me if it has already been asked BUT, if Joel had not moved to centre would Union have still came looking?

[Mike]

TO those advocating removing salary cap as a solution to RLs player retention problems - where will the money extra come from to pay the players?

Most RL clubs run at a substantial loss. Chairmen do not come into the sport looking to make money, they mainly lose it. The sport has to live within its means, and that was *supposed* to be the major reason it was brought in. Leveling the playing field was a secondary reason, but that seems to get the most attention these days.

Lets say we raised Joels salary to the 500K mark to keep him. We'd have to increase salaries across the board by 5x. We'd be out of business in a year.