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cpwigan wrote:

Panchitta Marra wrote:

cpwigan wrote: Alas you are not a sportsman PM so none of that matters or is relevant

Whatever CP.
The value of a contract is relevant to a true professional and not just the money irrespective of your line of work.

No that is a view personal to you PM and not universal even in normal working life and certainly not so in the sporting world.

This is by far a personal view to me, but maybe in your eyes it is.

True, I maybe cannot argue against the sporting world as I was no better than an average athlete and amateur Rugby League player.

I have however worked allongside thousands of like for like colleagues who value their contract as it is their licence to continuity of a reasonable living.
Whatever money you are on if you ditch on the deal you dont go back and are often overlooked for other positions elsewhere. Its as simple as that.
I guess in the teaching profession it may be a bit different.

butt monkey wrote:

cpwigan wrote:Out of interest how much do people think Joel was on per year/season at Wigan?

Pointless post as Joel was more than willing to sign a 5 year deal to earn whatever it was. Unless you are saying Joel is so weak-willed and poorly educated that he mindlessly signs contracts without knowing the implications?

You know CP, I would have had no qualm about Joel "upping sticks" and trying his hand in any other team or sport if he had decided what Wigan had offered was either not good enough for him, and deciding to let his contract expire. No one would. To sign it then complain it is not "enough" smacks of stupidity!

How much do you think Joel is on BM? Not a silly question, not at all. How much do some of you think a Wigan RL player gets as his salary. Very big issue?

Panchitta Marra wrote:

cpwigan wrote:

Panchitta Marra wrote: Whatever CP.
The value of a contract is relevant to a true professional and not just the money irrespective of your line of work.

No that is a view personal to you PM and not universal even in normal working life and certainly not so in the sporting world.

This is by far a personal view to me, but maybe in your eyes it is.

True, I maybe cannot argue against the sporting world as I was no better than an average athlete and amateur Rugby League player.

I have however worked allongside thousands of like for like colleagues who value their contract as it is their licence to continuity of a reasonable living.
Whatever money you are on if you ditch on the deal you dont go back and are often overlooked for other positions elsewhere. Its as simple as that.
I guess in the teaching profession it may be a bit different.

Right let's get it clear PM,

Whomever, anybody, everybody

If you have a job, your employees extract the maximum from you for as little as they can get away. Many would say and so they should.

If you hit hard times and go to your boss and say boss struggling financially at the moment, can I have some overtime to earn some more money. If I do not get money ASAP I will lose my house, my children will be homeless. No employer gives you the time of day when you ask them for help, two fingers to you life is tough. However, your employers receive a big order and need workers to do overtime then they jolly well expect it when it suits them and guess what, there will be money grabbing fellow workers who will stab you in the back to protect their right to overtime, men/women obsessed with their bank balance who will screw you rather than give a young worker with kids an even break.

So employers shaft workers and workers shaft workers. Anybody want to argue different. Guess what you are talking bollocks. I am not talking just from personal experience here (far from it) but also from generations of workers; miners, mill workers, production workers. It has never been any different and it never will. Why, human nature is to be a bastard to your fellow human beings. So any of you want to pretend otherwise. I again say bollocks. Even when people give money for charity they frequently do so disingenously.

I do not care if you work to a contract and see your contract outs. Whopee doo. I have worked to permanent and to temporary contracts. I have worked at a very high level with the most selfish, evil, bone idle high earners who would screw you without the blink of an eye.

That is the real world, dog eat dog. It is unpleasant, mean and nasty. Human beings are predisposed IMO to being mean and nasty before being kind and charitable.

Romantic bullshit about sport. I will tell you why I played sport. Yes, I enjoyed it but the enjoyment came from knowing that on a sports field it was man v man no hiding/abusing a system to shaft people behind closed doors. You could look in the eyes of another man and impose yourself on him, man to man in a truly fair contest. Hardly anywhere in life do we ever see a fair contest, a truly fair life. Sport can and should be the one place you can because you will never get it in every day life, certainly not in the work place.

So anybody wants to take a holier than thou stance I say bullshit, because that is what it is bullshit.

Just so we are clear folks

Joel Tomkins is on 55K at Wigan, his union contract will be 150k + 50k bonuses if he achieves things like playing for England.

Lest some of you fine upstanding citizens, paragons of virtue forget, when IL first came to the club and finances were messy, Joel took a 20k pay cut to stay at Wigan. He took a pay cut!! None of you honourable men/ladies condemning here and now remembered that did you. None of you care, you soon forget do you not.

So please think before you criticise the man for trying to earn a decent living getting paid a salary commensurate to his ability/value. Please folks post here and tell me which of you is willing to take a 40% pay cut to stay with a current employer, have any of you done that. Better still who here has turned down a 66% - 75% salary increase out of loyalty to your current employer.

At the present time another ex Wigan player is trying to recover 30K he says is owed to him by Wigan RLFC.

Lest we forget the way Mike Greg was treated by wigan RLFC.

Josh charnley has been looking for PT jobs to supplement his rugby career and we are an elite professional sport? Yes right lol

I have an inkling Wigan do not use the full cap and are trying to drive wages down and down. The last time I heard Lockers (who IMO should be our highest paid player) was on 120k. So start thinking are our players getting paid what they deserve (through either the fault of the RFL salary cap and/or IL).

9. something years on average a players career and yet some of you want players to treated like shit and condemned to servitude to fans, many of whom would turn on you at a moments notice and whose memories are incredibly short.

Obviously Lenagan is a cheap skate when it comes to players wages then if the case of Josh Charnley is true which I believe it is.

Which bodes the question of your earlier post CP, is Lenegan, as an owner really prepared to lose money? I'd guess not if he's giving the players less than they're worth?

Even when people give money for charity they frequently do so disingenously.

I prefer Giftaid.

TonyH wrote:Obviously Lenagan is a cheap skate when it comes to players wages then if the case of Josh Charnley is true which I believe it is.

Which bodes the question of your earlier post CP, is Lenegan, as an owner really prepared to lose money? I'd guess not if he's giving the players less than they're worth?

Not a chance IMO Tony that IL would take a hike financially. He will argue and have many supporters that clubs should be self sustaining BUT IMO whilst that is a great aim, owners should expect and indeed take a financial hit for the reward / satisfaction they derive from being owners. Fans make financial sacrifices, players make financial sacrifices, why not owners. For me Jack Walker was the ultimate club owner.

Very surprised at how little Joel is on, and you can't blame him for trebling his wages! Good luck to him. Union is massive in profile compared to league, we can't even sell 12k tickets for an England v Wales game coming up ffs!

Btw on the topic of Union, cp wigan, have you heard anything about Manu Tuilagi coming to us?

lcharnock2 wrote:Very surprised at how little Joel is on, and you can't blame him for trebling his wages! Good luck to him. Union is massive in profile compared to league, we can't even sell 12k tickets for an England v Wales game coming up ffs!

Btw on the topic of Union, cp wigan, have you heard anything about Manu Tuilagi coming to us?

No, I really like the look of Ma'a Nonu personally.

cp, I think you should think before you start putting on what you supposedly think players are earning. It is not our business.