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butt monkey wrote:

cpwigan wrote:Player and coach are not seeing eye to eye. Injury is a smokescreen.

I posted earlier in this thread about Leeds being Barrett's last appearance in a cherry and white shirt.

Rumours abound that Barrett was asked to drop to the bench to "trial" the combination of Smith and LuLu, Barrett refused and was dropped as a result.

I was away on holiday but didn't Smith play yhe full 80 v Les Cats or Hull? If so why did they need another trial?

If there is any truth in any of this then both Noble and to a lesser extent Barrett are in the wrong IMO.

Now isn't the time to be trying things out. We need all the points we can get (especially before the Wakey game when all this is supposed to have happened).

Noble needs to work out how to get them both in the side and part of that is the man management of the situation, e.g. "Trent, after your injury we want to make sure we don't aggravate it so will introduce you later, OK"?

I also find it hard to believe a player as experienced as Barrett would behave so unprofessionally. He can't refuse to start on the bench so if he did that is wrong but I don't believe it.

If you are right and Leeds is Barrett's last game then Noble will have totally failed to manage the Barrett situation of him leaving early and we will enter the play-offs with far less chance than we did before.

Dave

The sides current form owes a lot to Trent. After Huddersfield he did what Noble should have been doing and gathered the players together. The sense of togetherness came from that players meeting at Orrell.

It may be that Noble screwed it up again by stabbing Trent in the back after he had rescued Noble by doing his job for him. The problems between Trent and Noble have been happening for virtually the whole season. He has offered to help Noble and every offer has been turned down. If he suggests something in training to improve how the team plays, Noble shouts him down.

Maybe just maybe Trent has thought I give up and rather than rock the boat let Noble get on with it because whatever I say or do is pointless. The fans forum criticism hurt him too.

The nice Noble on TV is not the real coach. He is a control freak and cannot accept advice and assistance.

DaveO wrote:

butt monkey wrote:

cpwigan wrote:Player and coach are not seeing eye to eye. Injury is a smokescreen.

I posted earlier in this thread about Leeds being Barrett's last appearance in a cherry and white shirt.

Rumours abound that Barrett was asked to drop to the bench to "trial" the combination of Smith and LuLu, Barrett refused and was dropped as a result.

I was away on holiday but didn't Smith play yhe full 80 v Les Cats or Hull? If so why did they need another trial?

Dave

Barrett was asked to drop to the bench for Les Cats match.

cpwigan wrote:The sides current form owes a lot to Trent. After Huddersfield he did what Noble should have been doing and gathered the players together. The sense of togetherness came from that players meeting at Orrell.

It may be that Noble screwed it up again by stabbing Trent in the back after he had rescued Noble by doing his job for him. The problems between Trent and Noble have been happening for virtually the whole season. He has offered to help Noble and every offer has been turned down. If he suggests something in training to improve how the team plays, Noble shouts him down.

Maybe just maybe Trent has thought I give up and rather than rock the boat let Noble get on with it because whatever I say or do is pointless. The fans forum criticism hurt him too.

The nice Noble on TV is not the real coach. He is a control freak and cannot accept advice and assistance.

Is it me or is it just a coincidence that Barrett has not played since the Hull game.I think that Barrett did a bit more than having a chat with the players i think he coached them to play open rugby defying Noble [there is no way that the way the team played against Hull were Nobbys tactics]???????

jaws1 wrote:

cpwigan wrote:The sides current form owes a lot to Trent. After Huddersfield he did what Noble should have been doing and gathered the players together. The sense of togetherness came from that players meeting at Orrell.

It may be that Noble screwed it up again by stabbing Trent in the back after he had rescued Noble by doing his job for him. The problems between Trent and Noble have been happening for virtually the whole season. He has offered to help Noble and every offer has been turned down. If he suggests something in training to improve how the team plays, Noble shouts him down.

Maybe just maybe Trent has thought I give up and rather than rock the boat let Noble get on with it because whatever I say or do is pointless. The fans forum criticism hurt him too.

The nice Noble on TV is not the real coach. He is a control freak and cannot accept advice and assistance.

Is it me or is it just a coincidence that Barrett has not played since the Hull game I think that Barrett did a bit more than having a chat with the players i think he coached them to play open rugby defying Noble [there is no way that the way the team played against Hull were Nobbys tactics]???????

Thats exactly what I thought Jaws

OK lets sum this up a bit.
We are going down. Noble comes. Fielden comes. Dobbo comes. We recover. We are safe. We don,t go down. We lose Dobbo. We gain Barrett. Barrett is released by his Oz club who will pay to get rid of him. Suddenly Noble, top league coach, GB coach and our saviour is useless. Fielden is top world prop and he is suddenly useless. The team that saved us and promised much is useless. Barrett wants to go home and Wigan can't get him on the plane quick enough. Two contracts terminated early. Team loses Barrett through injury. Team plays better and happier. Team wins. Team smiles. Fans smile. Maybe St Barrett is not such a saint. Maybe he has been undermining the coach. Maybe he was causing as many problems as he was solving. Just Maybe,
Jim

highland convert wrote:OK lets sum this up a bit.
We are going down. Noble comes. Fielden comes. Dobbo comes. We recover. We are safe. We don,t go down. We lose Dobbo. We gain Barrett. Barrett is released by his Oz club who will pay to get rid of him. Suddenly Noble, top league coach, GB coach and our saviour is useless. Fielden is top world prop and he is suddenly useless. The team that saved us and promised much is useless. Barrett wants to go home and Wigan can't get him on the plane quick enough. Two contracts terminated early. Team loses Barrett through injury. Team plays better and happier. Team wins. Team smiles. Fans smile. Maybe St Barrett is not such a saint. Maybe he has been undermining the coach. Maybe he was causing as many problems as he was solving. Just Maybe,
Jim

Sorry but much if the above is simply misinformation and rewriting history. It's like Chinese whispers one improbable notion leading to the next.

Two contracts terminated early? I assume you mean Barrett's but which other one?

What has Fielden's form got to do with Barrett? Nothing. Fielden was poor in 2007 when every man and his dog was rightly saying Barrett was done out of the Man of Steel and we got to two semi finals. What was Fielden's excuse?

The reason St. George "paid to get rid of him" was because they had salary cap issues and by paying part of his Wigan wages they still reduced their salary cap spend. You make it out as if they wanted to get rid which isn't the case.

We didn't "lose" Dobbo either. The deal for Barrett was already done and for other players for 2007 which meant there was no way we could keep him as our quota was full. He also wanted to go back to Aus and was only on-loan from his club which you seem to have forgotten. He wasn't actually our player! He could not stay if he wanted to and his club wanted him back.

The idea the team are happier without him is a also bit odd given out of all the recent games the best result was v Hull with him IN the side. He's only missed two games one a draw and one a slog due to Mathers sending off so how anyone can conclude the team are happier without him based on those two games is beyond me.

We have had two very similar seasons in that if we win the two remaining games we will have won the same number of league games in 2008 as 2007 (but will be 1 league point better off due to two draws instead of one).

Neither is good enough IMO and the buck for that stops with the coach, not Barrett or any other individual player.

We all believe Noble can't or won't coach Calderwood for some reason. If he can't handle having a genuine world class player in his side like Barrett the sooner Noble leaves the better.

Dave

DaveO wrote:

highland convert wrote:OK lets sum this up a bit.
We are going down. Noble comes. Fielden comes. Dobbo comes. We recover. We are safe. We don,t go down. We lose Dobbo. We gain Barrett. Barrett is released by his Oz club who will pay to get rid of him. Suddenly Noble, top league coach, GB coach and our saviour is useless. Fielden is top world prop and he is suddenly useless. The team that saved us and promised much is useless. Barrett wants to go home and Wigan can't get him on the plane quick enough. Two contracts terminated early. Team loses Barrett through injury. Team plays better and happier. Team wins. Team smiles. Fans smile. Maybe St Barrett is not such a saint. Maybe he has been undermining the coach. Maybe he was causing as many problems as he was solving. Just Maybe,
Jim

Sorry but much if the above is simply misinformation and rewriting history. It's like Chinese whispers one improbable notion leading to the next.

Two contracts terminated early? I assume you mean Barrett's but which other one?

What has Fielden's form got to do with Barrett? Nothing. Fielden was poor in 2007 when every man and his dog was rightly saying Barrett was done out of the Man of Steel and we got to two semi finals. What was Fielden's excuse?

The reason St. George "paid to get rid of him" was because they had salary cap issues and by paying part of his Wigan wages they still reduced their salary cap spend. You make it out as if they wanted to get rid which isn't the case.

We didn't "lose" Dobbo either. The deal for Barrett was already done and for other players for 2007 which meant there was no way we could keep him as our quota was full. He also wanted to go back to Aus and was only on-loan from his club which you seem to have forgotten. He wasn't actually our player! He could not stay if he wanted to and his club wanted him back.

The idea the team are happier without him is a also bit odd given out of all the recent games the best result was v Hull with him IN the side. He's only missed two games one a draw and one a slog due to Mathers sending off so how anyone can conclude the team are happier without him based on those two games is beyond me.

We have had two very similar seasons in that if we win the two remaining games we will have won the same number of league games in 2008 as 2007 (but will be 1 league point better off due to two draws instead of one).

Neither is good enough IMO and the buck for that stops with the coach, not Barrett or any other individual player.

We all believe Noble can't or won't coach Calderwood for some reason. If he can't handle having a genuine world class player in his side like Barrett the sooner Noble leaves the better.

Dave

Personally Dave I disagree with you in your assesment. I would put fieldens poor form last year down to personal reasons, I dont think he got his mums death of his shoulders with the mason shot not helping him! This year he seems to be recovering mentally, his physical ability has also been there but his mental ability cost him last year, due to his mothers tragic death.

I also think that the team seem happier without barrett in the line up. Reason why? Maybe the lads where in awe of barrett? I mean it does happen, trent barrett big aussie star, young wigan lad playing with him- it could potentially get to the young wiganers head. Also I think Leuluai has looked more threatening without barrett, he had his best game for us in france and was also excellent last week, he seems to have more energy playing with tim smith than he did with barrett.

Surely all this "buck" what you state doesnt rely on noble? the coach can only do so much, he has ideas and he puts the team on the park. Generally, when you look at our team compared to the opposition we should beat them comfortably, but often we dont, surely this has something to do with the players??? I disagree with you saying the blame lies with noble, is must also lie with the players.

Fieldens improvement coinsided with Barrett's release. Coincidence maybe. I have always stated that Barrett as an individual is a great player. I do not rate him as a team player. I have stuck with that opinion all the way through. The team work was not there. Calls for Lockers head, give Barrett the captaincy. Sorry he did not have it when it came being a team player. I speak from what I have witnessed not what is written here but unconfirmed. Who said he spoke o the team after Huddersfield? Who said he lead his own training season? What we can achieve will be from here forward. Barrett has played well this year when he has shown up. Sometimes he just could not be bothered.
He left Oz for salary cap reason mid contract. Why? Did he come here for glory and bailed out when he could not see it happening?

17 of Barrett's standard would not win if they did not play as a team.
Jim

warrior till i die wrote: Personally Dave I disagree with you in your assesment. I would put fieldens poor form last year down to personal reasons, I dont think he got his mums death of his shoulders with the mason shot not helping him! This year he seems to be recovering mentally, his physical ability has also been there but his mental ability cost him last year, due to his mothers tragic death.

I know all about that. It was an essentially rhetorical question. Fielden's poor form had nothing to do with Barrett but was mentioned by HC as if it was :doz:.

I also think that the team seem happier without barrett in the line up. Reason why? Maybe the lads where in awe of barrett? I mean it does happen, trent barrett big aussie star, young wigan lad playing with him- it could potentially get to the young wiganers head.

So what we need to do then is avoid signing anyone who is a class player? That is what you are saying. If we do sign such players it will result is disharmony and our young players will be so much in awe of them we are stuffed.

Ever heard of Gregory, Lydon, Bell, Hanley, Kenny, Miles, Offiah and so on? We would not have not them if your theory had any mileage in case the likes of Radlinski and Farrell wold have been scared stiff.

If there we have any young players who are so in awe of the likes of TB that they can't function properly we need to get shut and quick because they clearly have not go the balls to have the confidence in their own ability.

Also I think Leuluai has looked more threatening without barrett, he had his best game for us in france and was also excellent last week, he seems to have more energy playing with tim smith than he did with barrett.

Based on two games? OK.

Surely all this "buck" what you state doesnt rely on noble? the coach can only do so much, he has ideas and he puts the team on the park. Generally, when you look at our team compared to the opposition we should beat them comfortably, but often we dont, surely this has something to do with the players??? I disagree with you saying the blame lies with noble, is must also lie with the players.

He's had 2 1/2 seasons and we have gone nowhere. It's up to him to improve matters with whoever he has as players.

What I was also saying was if Noble can't deal with Barrett and make the team work with him in it then its Noble's fault. I am talking about getting the team working as a team here not simply results. It is definitely Nobles job to do that. He has by common consent failed to utilize Calderwood properly. What HC posted implied Barrett was another player Noble could not fathom. If Noble can't work out how to use such a class player never mind Calderwood then he is at fault.

Dave