Leeds 18 -v- Wigan 14: Match thread ("_)

[DaveO]

Dave can you play your violin on some other street corner. My ears are hurting. Do you know why o'Carol was not playing? Was it change for change sake or necessity?

Given he played today clearly it wasn't a necessity due to an injury to him. The rest of the squad proved to be fit on the night, even Carmont who was excellent which was the only player Noble himself stated was the only injury doubt from last week.

I therefore see no reasin to alter my conclusion that in my opinion it was a mistake not to play O'Carroll and stick to a winning formula especially against a big Leeds side. Three props was the wrong option in my opinion and that is before we consider the fact Noble replace him with a player deemed surplus to requirements because he isn't good enough.

So my conclusion is, in my opinion, Noble made a big mistake.

You defence of Noble in this seems to be "I don't know why he did it". Join the club. Neither does anyone else!

The players were slower. As was said the boys had given their all v cats. The energy levels were down right from the start. The snap was just not there. You say Noble does not rate Calders. Prove it, show me where he says it?

I don't have to prove it. It's my opinion based on the fact he has continually overlooked him for selection at Wigan and when he was GB coach. He has picked other players (some clearly inferior) regularly even when Calderwood has been available.

Conclusion? He doesn't rate him as highly as other players. It is not an unreasonable one to come to.

Players you think are going for player ability may be going for a completely different reason. I noted he fans lined up for Mickey and Calders. The players were quiet about it. There as suspected division in the dressing room. Maybe, just maybe the dividers are leaving!!!

You ask me to "prove it" and then come out with this fairytale? And you wonder why Pedro called you post laughable?

Maybe, just maybe? Prove it.

Phelps stood his ground on many occasions. I dont see you criticising Leeds cos Fika walked all over them. Phelps had a lot of good plays, good carries and great tackles but I stated in an earlier thread some are just looking for the mistake so they can berate team and coach.
Jim

Leeds attacked Phelps all night. I have not once criticised the player for not standing his ground. The fact is it was Leeds plan to run at him (and that they continued to do so) was blindingly obvious to anyone who knows anything about the game. The fact Noble didn't address this problem is a criticism of Noble, not Phelps.

Dave

[highland convert]

And maybe,Dave some of us find it annoying when someone without all the facts keeps criticising the team members,coach, owner, fans, forum posters, and probably the cleaners cat. Suport for the team should go from Il to last person in the gate. There is a big difference between an opinion and a vedetta. Some of us think the team has improved. You obviousl don't. There is no such thing as instant success in sport. And OK I may not have played RL but I did play union to a reasonable standard before it became kick and chase.
Jim

[GeoffN]

And maybe,Dave some of us find it annoying when someone without all the facts keeps criticising the team members,coach, owner, fans, forum posters, and probably the cleaners cat. Suport for the team should go from Il to last person in the gate. There is a big difference between an opinion and a vedetta. Some of us think the team has improved. You obviousl don't. There is no such thing as instant success in sport. And OK I may not have played RL but I did play union to a reasonable standard before it became kick and chase.
Jim

Of course we don't know all the facts, but all the facts we do have support our positions. Regarding Calderwood, as Dave says, he was repeatedly dropped, even when fit, for Colbon, and it took Noble half the season to realise what we'd been saying from day one; Colbon isn't quick enough to be a winger.

Regarding the team not having improved, again all the facts support that position; if you want to claim an improvement, then point us to some facts that support your position.

In factual performance terms, the only improvements I've seen in the club are in the reserve and Academy teams. It remains to be seen whether Noble will recognise that by promoting some of them, but given his record so far in that regard, I'm not confident.

[highland convert]

Personally I do not rate Colbon. Could Colbon be a trade off to allow O'Carol to play in the reserve GF, which he did. Did the coaching staff think it vital that a player of his ability be there to see the team through? IE did the reserves ask for O'C back for the GF?

Between Calders and Noble there is bad blood. That is obvious. What it is I have no idea which would draw me to the conclusion it is detrimental to the team for Calderwood to be in the team. That is borne out by thefact he has now left. Fir all his game time Mickey is different. While a solid player Noble must feel that we need something more in that position. That I put down to the reason we seem to play one up. We lack width. The width starts as soon as Mickey gets the ball in his hands. Solid but predictable. Unfortunately he became surplus to requirement. It has happened before, it will happen again.
Jim

[waterside glens]

btw did anybody notice that there was a forward pass in the build up to leeds first 2 tries.if you look at the way the grass has been cut you can see the pass was forward for the first try and the second was released from the ten and was caught about 7 yards out

[GeoffN]

One of the things I have against Noble is the way he has favourites. It seems to me that players should be selected or not on merit, rather than whether he likes them or not.

Picking Mathers over Calderwood, for example, just seems bizarre to me.

[DaveO]

Personally I do not rate Colbon. Could Colbon be a trade off to allow O'Carol to play in the reserve GF, which he did. Did the coaching staff think it vital that a player of his ability be there to see the team through? IE did the reserves ask for O'C back for the GF?

Are you seriously suggesting the reserves get first call on a player over the first team trying to get the GF?

That is just not credible speculation never mind argument.

It is obvious Colbon's selection over O'Carroll was deliberate by Nobby. Both were fit and he chose to go for an extra back and break up his winning team.

It was Nobles choice and he made the wrong one.

Between Calders and Noble there is bad blood. That is obvious. What it is I have no idea which would draw me to the conclusion it is detrimental to the team for Calderwood to be in the team.

How can you come out with arguments like this when you dismiss everyone else's because we don't know the facts?

The fact he hasn't picked Calders on numerous occasions means he must not rate him. Why that is we don't actually know but it's the opinion of many that he is a better player than Colbon who is the player who most often replaced him. That being peoples opinion they criticise Nobby for it. It's all pretty straightforward and logical and doesn't need speculation out of the X files to reach this conclusion.

That is borne out by thefact he has now left.

How on earth does the fact he has left bare out what you said above about there being bad blood between the pair of them?

Fir all his game time Mickey is different. While a solid player Noble must feel that we need something more in that position. That I put down to the reason we seem to play one up. We lack width. The width starts as soon as Mickey gets the ball in his hands. Solid but predictable. Unfortunately he became surplus to requirement. It has happened before, it will happen again.
Jim

That is a different topic. Higham despite the fact he is leaving has not missed a single game in three years. Not one.

Calders on the other hand has been fit and not be picked over poorer players. That is what we were discussing here.

Dave

[waterside glens]

i think your right here Dave ,the only way Colbon should have played was if Richards was at full back a poor choice by Noble. He (noble) should also have brought back Higham and Hock back sooner as we chased the game

[platt-warrior]

Your friends (players in and around the club)are talking out of their backsides.He is a quality hooker,not in the same mould as MH but has a good RL brain,for goodness sake he's not got off the plane yet.PS I like a pint too

[DaveO]

Your friends (players in and around the club)are talking out of their backsides

It's a well documented fact they were drinking buddies, the pair of them turning up for training too drunk to train. They were both disciplined for it.

So I am not sure how you conclude the players were talking out of their backsides on this one. What we have to hope is they are reformed characters and that the two of them together again at Wigan doesn't lead to a similar situation once more.

Dave