WHATEVER HAPPENED TO;

[wall_of_voodoo]

Brett Dallas was never as good as he could have been at Wigan. He was starved of the ball and had to go looking for the ball and this resulted in a lot of injuries for him due to being hit high and hard of the forwards.

If he would have had a good centre at Wigan he would have topped the try scoring table every season and he didnt.

You need a good centre to use the winger to the full potential. If you think otherwise then thats your call but I played on the wing and knew hwo much ball I would get and the quality of the ball when the team was announced and I knew the centre.

You have missed the point of the thread. Wigan do not play to their wings and have not for years. I cannot see how having one or even two of the worlds best centres in a team would suddenly make a winger score more trys if the gameplan was safety first and more built around completion (keeping away from the sidelines in order to prevent being forced into touch). Dallas was like carney in many respects despite their differing styles. Both ended up more dummy half runners and kick returners, than out and out scorers produced from any fancy threequarter play.

[pedro]

Wigan do play to their Wings on plays it just stops at the centres as they do not have the skills of top centres......Carmont is thew exception and gets his winger ball with good position.

[Wigan Watcher]

"THERE`S ONLY 1 BRIAN CARNEY!!
THERE`S ONLY 1 BRIAN CARNEY!!"





sorry, just a little happy, after tonights events.

There certainly is only on Brian Carney and I’m glad of that. People soon forget that this guy decided that he was injured for a long period of time so he could leave the club to go elsewhere. He strung the club along then hung us out to dry. Once he left his injury went away the same week.

He was told and it was reported in the local paper at the time which is unheard of. Brian needs to decide if he is injured or not. That was said because he trained all week and then announced he was injured week after week when match day came along.

This is not calling the guy it is fact!

[wall_of_voodoo]

Wigan do play to their Wings on plays it just stops at the centres as they do not have the skills of top centres......Carmont is thew exception and gets his winger ball with good position.

I think you have been watching a different team to me all season!

You are saying that the only failure and downside of this wigan team, and the main reason for lack of success, is that because they do not have world class centres, the clubs wingers have not been able to score enough trys?

Witness st helens, jamie lyon and matt gidley, 2 exceptional centres who have made an average winger (ade gardner) appear better than he actually is. If you are saying that brett dallas needed one of these two centres inside of him whilst at wigan, in order to have been described as a class winger, you are questionable at the very least. He played for australia for goodness sake, that is not the exploits of a player needing a good centre inside of him, to make him appear better than he actually was, is it?

[pedro]

How do you know Gardner is average? Just because he played outside world class centres ever since he arrived at Saints.

They create the space but he still has to finish them.

Along with Dallas he was a class winger but never really had a good try scoring record for his ability, why is that? Its because he didnt get the service. If you think class wingers do not need a good centre then you are deluded. Carney was leading try scorer in oz for 1 season who was his centre...?

A good winger can create his own space at times but it is rare and cannot do it everytime so need service and need to be given space and time to work in.


I never said Wigans failings this year was due to poor wing service, show me I said it and I will stand corrected. My old coach used to say yours hookers on top, your props on top, your props on top your secondrowers on top.......etc.

Our failings are due to our pack being beaten in so many games (but that is not what the thread is about). Prove me wrong. Name me a few wingers who do ti all themselves without a good centre outside them.

[wall_of_voodoo]

Without getting into a slanging match - Jason robinson, martin offiah, henderson gill, brett dallas, brian carney for starters, were all wigan wingers who could make their own space and score from any length of the field. None needed a good centre to score any of the trys that they did. This is without nominating any players from other teams/countries.

Mark preston, rob smyth, mark calderwood etc are players who are not of the quality of the above, and as such, would have needed good players around them to help them achieve their scoring exploits.

I never said Wigans failings this year was due to poor wing service, show me I said it and I will stand corrected.

Wigan do play to their Wings on plays it just stops at the centres as they do not have the skills of top centres

There, I have shown you!

[pedro]

That doesnt say its the short fallings it says where plays break down.

Robinson had Connolly and Renouf...Offiah was quiet till we signed Miles and had an international centre at Widness, Gill had Stephenson who was the GB centre....Dallas and Carney were good players but never fulfilled what they could have. Like I said Carney scored a few went to oz with Gidley and was top try scorer. Dallas had to look for the ball and scored a lot due to support and scooting which is what wingers need but they should also be used to finish off plays thats why we signed speed which most of these had.

Preston was a very good winger and scored a lot himself also.

[DaveO]

[quote="pedro"]Brett Dallas was never as good as he could have been at Wigan. He was starved of the ball and had to go looking for the ball and this resulted in a lot of injuries for him due to being hit high and hard of the forwards.

If he would have had a good centre at Wigan he would have topped the try scoring table every season and he didnt.{/quote]

I agree. Similar comments were made about Dallas as Calderwood regarding we may as well not bother having him particularly toward the end of his career.

Dallas like Calderwood was very fast and the best way to use pace is in space, not taking the ball up at 1st receiver into a set defence. Yes wingers have to do it sometimes but I am convinced both Dallas and Calders would have scored more tries with a better centre.

It's very frustrating to have players like that in your side and not play to their strengths.

Dave

[markill]

I remember a try scored by dallas against Huddersfield at the JJB back in i think 2001(?) where he turned his opposite winger inside out then speeded round his outside from our half. I remember it because i haven't seen it happen too much at wigan since.

Centre was probably renouf, and he wasn't bad. thing is we had back rowers and centres who'll throw it wide. this year we did that on the left but neither bailey or goulding have an right pass to talk about and both get greedy near the line.

Its like was said above, we do play to the wing, just on the right hand side it often ends at the centre or is turned back inside by the 2nd rower.

[GeoffN]

Brett Dallas was never as good as he could have been at Wigan. He was starved of the ball and had to go looking for the ball and this resulted in a lot of injuries for him due to being hit high and hard of the forwards.

If he would have had a good centre at Wigan he would have topped the try scoring table every season and he didnt.{/quote]

I agree. Similar comments were made about Dallas as Calderwood regarding we may as well not bother having him particularly toward the end of his career.

Dallas like Calderwood was very fast and the best way to use pace is in space, not taking the ball up at 1st receiver into a set defence. Yes wingers have to do it sometimes but I am convinced both Dallas and Calders would have scored more tries with a better centre.

It's very frustrating to have players like that in your side and not play to their strengths.

Dave

I agree with all you say, Dave (unusually), but I'd add another option for quick wingers that we've mostly underused: the kick-chase. Look how many times we used it in the closing games and playoffs, when Calders was allowed back in the side, and how many times he either scored, set up a try, or trapped the opposing winger in-goal. Early in the season, we rarely used it, even when Calders was playing.
It's not a tactic that we could use with either Colbon or Phelps, or even Richards for that matter (his strength is challenging for a high ball rather than winning the race to a grubber), but that just highlights how Calderwood's pace was mostly underused.