Have we judged Mathers too early?

[exile in Tiger country]

I have said all season Mathers would be our full back for 2009.

So I have been (I think!) pretty ambivalent towards him this year for the most part. There were times I'd like to have seen someone else at fullback (not Richards because I like him on the wing better) but we are stuck with Mathers for 2009 so I don't see any point getting getting het up about it.

He makes an interesting point about pre-season training and it was his first season back after injury.

Mind you Wigan have failed to give some players the benefit of a second season after their first one back after a major injury if their contract was up at the end of it i.e. Hodgson and Calders. So on that score he's been lucky IMO to get another chance.

So I guess on balance I fall on the side of wiping the slate clean and letting us see how his second season goes. I'd have like to have seen those other two players given the chance of another season so it would be hypocritical not want the same for Mathers.

He has no excuse though next year not to be better and I actually think he might be.

Dave

He would struggle to be worse. If he is, then even Nobby would have to leave him out.

[cpwigan]

His major problems are two:

1. Can’t put a big hit on anyone

2. No bottle

You can’t put a big heart into someone, so we are stuck with a fullback who can’t tackle someone running at him along with no bottle.

Sorry it may seem harsh but these are the facts.

They are not facts, merely your opinion!

No matter what criticisms I may have about rugby players (both codes) I have never believed a lack of 'bottle' to have been one of them. This particularly applies to Richie Mathers who returned to the game following a serious injury. Let's not forget that people have been permanently disabled playing the sport we follow and it takes an amount of courage to cross that whitewash.

I think sometimes we all (including me) need to understand what one person means by a word is different than another. I will give you an example. 1845/85 RLCC Semi Final I watched Hull KR pull up in their coach at the ground. THe players to a man looked terrified. They were clearly not terified in the true sense of the word but hopefully you all appreciate the word can be taken differently.

Fear / Nerves - Not much difference in some respects but sometimes a world of difference literally.

[medlocke]

His major problems are two:

1. Can’t put a big hit on anyone

2. No bottle

You can’t put a big heart into someone, so we are stuck with a fullback who can’t tackle someone running at him along with no bottle.

Sorry it may seem harsh but these are the facts.

They are not facts, merely your opinion!

No matter what criticisms I may have about rugby players (both codes) I have never believed a lack of 'bottle' to have been one of them. This particularly applies to Richie Mathers who returned to the game following a serious injury. Let's not forget that people have been permanently disabled playing the sport we follow and it takes an amount of courage to cross that whitewash.

I think sometimes we all (including me) need to understand what one person means by a word is different than another. I will give you an example. 1845/85 RLCC Semi Final I watched Hull KR pull up in their coach at the ground. THe players to a man looked terrified. They were clearly not terified in the true sense of the word but hopefully you all appreciate the word can be taken differently.

Fear / Nerves - Not much difference in some respects but sometimes a world of difference literally.

How many horses where pulling it

[cpwigan]

They are not facts, merely your opinion!

No matter what criticisms I may have about rugby players (both codes) I have never believed a lack of 'bottle' to have been one of them. This particularly applies to Richie Mathers who returned to the game following a serious injury. Let's not forget that people have been permanently disabled playing the sport we follow and it takes an amount of courage to cross that whitewash.

I think sometimes we all (including me) need to understand what one person means by a word is different than another. I will give you an example. 1845/85 RLCC Semi Final I watched Hull KR pull up in their coach at the ground. THe players to a man looked terrified. They were clearly not terified in the true sense of the word but hopefully you all appreciate the word can be taken differently.

Fear / Nerves - Not much difference in some respects but sometimes a world of difference literally.

How many horses where pulling it

David Watkinson looked very unhappy. I think the horse nearest had dropped one

[Wigan Watcher]

Sorry everyone for posting he had no bottle I was wrong. He has very little bottle.

I agree you must have some bottle to go onto the field, but considering we are talking Super League don’t you all think there is something wrong when his courage is in question when playing for the most famous club in the world?

I see him as the opposite of Hampson and Rads and only see Ashton in him and everyone must agree he bottled it on more than one occasion!

[highland convert]

No I certainly don't agree. Poor tecnique maybe but lack of bottle no way. You are trying to tar us with the same gripe you have. He is on a learning curve,bottle does not come into it. He is being asked to stop the best this country has to offer. How many spin out trys were scored against us this year against our top players. I don't see you slating Barret ,Lulu , Fielden, Hock they have all missed them. He stands alone and misses you are in like a rabied dog. Watch the good points. Look at his count against Leeds on this site. He was voted one of our best. I think this topic has gone from anti-mathers to a cowardly attack.
Jim

[cpwigan]

Sorry everyone for posting he had no bottle I was wrong. He has very little bottle.

I agree you must have some bottle to go onto the field, but considering we are talking Super League don’t you all think there is something wrong when his courage is in question when playing for the most famous club in the world?

I see him as the opposite of Hampson and Rads and only see Ashton in him and everyone must agree he bottled it on more than one occasion!

Watcher I believe Ashton was even a far better fullback.

One area where he does show far too much self preservation is when somebody chips over and it is a 50/50 ball. At least twice Mathers literally spun out of the way leaving the ball to go anywhere.

[Wigan Watcher]

No I certainly don't agree. Poor tecnique maybe but lack of bottle no way. You are trying to tar us with the same gripe you have. He is on a learning curve,bottle does not come into it. He is being asked to stop the best this country has to offer. How many spin out trys were scored against us this year against our top players. I don't see you slating Barret ,Lulu , Fielden, Hock they have all missed them. He stands alone and misses you are in like a rabied dog. Watch the good points. Look at his count against Leeds on this site. He was voted one of our best. I think this topic has gone from anti-mathers to a cowardly attack.
Jim

I’m glad you think this topic has gone towards a cowardly attack because I know it has not. This is a normal topic that is discussing a players mental attributes and there is nothing wrong with that what so ever.

We could turn this on its head and talk about how brave Rads was. So if talking about a player’s lack of determination is wrong then so is talking about another’s bravery.

You can’t have it both ways

[highland convert]

We could turn this on its head and talk about how brave Rads was. So if talking about a player’s lack of determination is wrong then so is talking about another’s bravery.

There is a big difference between lack of determination an lack of bottle. You said we all agree with you that Mathers lacks bottle. I said no we do not. Serveral time I have refered to lack of determination in my support for Noble. If the players have a lack on the field that may not be down to the coach. There is a few who have been worse than Mathers in this respect. Calders for one. Fielden first half of the season for another. So have you changed your mind and Mathers now lacks determination not bottle,
Jim

[cpwigan]

Jim is it not the coaches job to select the best team available? Many supporters do not think that happened in 2008. The same players were given preferential treatment time and time again whilst others were regularly dropped irrespective of form.