Low aspirations

[GeoffN]

lets be honest ........... you dont give a stuff who is in charge ......you just like having a bloody good moan.

I don't give a stuff who's in charge as long as they produce the goods.

[highland convert]

It still is Wigan RLFC. Maybe you will have to accept that the game now is far more competitive than when Wigan had the glory years. During the glory years crossing the Penines was long distance. Australia was somewhere you emigrated to for a tenner, Posh houses had tellies, Two cars in the street was only knobb hill. 6foot tall was a giant. A prop played 80 minutes unless the doc declared him unfit. Holidays were a week in Blackpool. Matches were a mudbath wrestle where teams were unrecognisable 5 minutes into the game. Most of the Yorkshire fans worked down the pits. Wigan reigned supreme. Things are different now. Money talks to players world wide. Gone are the days where because you grew your own you were the best. That happens now on the park. Talent is lent out to other clubs to mature then brought back. Scott Moore Huddersfield primr example will be reclaimed bt stains, Mossup will come back to us. The playmakers of many teams do come from a few clubs. Wigan is a prime provider but they cannot keep them all. Skill levels have been dispersed throughout superleague. That tips the scales to a far leveler playing field.
Ration books and horses are a thing of the past. So are Wigan glory years. Now we have a game where the mighty will rise and fall. We will reach your goal CP in the next couple of years if we stay with the team we have got. You seem to want all out change, In a few years we will go into decline again. Leeds are struggling to reach the hights this year. StH will be the same. The second half of the season will be interesting as top runners slide, Wigan will finish possibly top 4. Huddersfield and wire will be in the mix. HKR I expect will slide. Cats and Hull will struggle. Wakefield and Harliquins will struggle to be top 8. Cas will be overtaken by Wire soon.
It is interesting if you take off the Wigan blinkers and look at the league as a whole.
Jim

[GeoffN]

It still is Wigan RLFC. Maybe you will have to accept that the game now is far more competitive than when Wigan had the glory years. During the glory years crossing the Penines was long distance. Australia was somewhere you emigrated to for a tenner, Posh houses had tellies, Two cars in the street was only knobb hill. 6foot tall was a giant. A prop played 80 minutes unless the doc declared him unfit. Holidays were a week in Blackpool. Matches were a mudbath wrestle where teams were unrecognisable 5 minutes into the game. Most of the Yorkshire fans worked down the pits. Wigan reigned supreme. Things are different now. Money talks to players world wide. Gone are the days where because you grew your own you were the best. That happens now on the park. Talent is lent out to other clubs to mature then brought back. Scott Moore Huddersfield primr example will be reclaimed bt stains, Mossup will come back to us. The playmakers of many teams do come from a few clubs. Wigan is a prime provider but they cannot keep them all. Skill levels have been dispersed throughout superleague. That tips the scales to a far leveler playing field.
Ration books and horses are a thing of the past. So are Wigan glory years. Now we have a game where the mighty will rise and fall. We will reach your goal CP in the next couple of years if we stay with the team we have got. You seem to want all out change, In a few years we will go into decline again. Leeds are struggling to reach the hights this year. StH will be the same. The second half of the season will be interesting as top runners slide, Wigan will finish possibly top 4. Huddersfield and wire will be in the mix. HKR I expect will slide. Cats and Hull will struggle. Wakefield and Harliquins will struggle to be top 8. Cas will be overtaken by Wire soon.
It is interesting if you take off the Wigan blinkers and look at the league as a whole.
Jim

You seem to have a diffent historical view to some, Jim...I don't remember ration cards and suchlike in 1996 or thereabouts, when the glory years ended.

Nobody, even cp, is calling for "all-out" change, just a change in coaching strategy (and tactics, admittedly, but mainly strategy), and personnel in a few key playing positions.

Genuine competition for places would be a good start, with players selected on form rather than reputation or country of origin.

[yoda warrior]

OK lets all look at a few facts since Brian noble came
2006
Wigan were in dire straits,facing relegation and a team that lacked commitment,motivation and the will to compete
Ian Millward sacked enter Brian noble
in the season he arrived, he got rid of the dead wood and signed two players who you must admit steered us away from the drop zone and not only that we were only two points off a play-off place at the end of the season

Milllward was a disaster there is no two ways about it but you have to wonder if he had been allowed to get rid of the dead wood and sign Fielden and Dobson instead of the likes of Wilkes what would have happened.

My view is there wasn't a lot wrong with the team we had and with the addition of two players it showed what it was capable of. This IMO set expectations for the next season.

2007
one challenge cup semi final and one final eliminator from 6th place in the league in his first full year which after the turmoil of the previous year isn,t too bad
the best comeback in rugby league history, to win 31-30 after being 30points to six down with 25 minutes to go against a full strength Bradford team isn,t bad either

2007 was a massive disappointment. Yes we won that epic 31-30 game but we were a busted flush afterwards because earlier on in the season we failed to build on 2006 so left ourselves with having to win games like that. That win was probably more than we could expect given where we finished in the regular season and given the way we played all season (inconsistently) but at the end of the day it isn't any achievement at all because we were knocked out and won nothing. That win won't be included in any Wigan roll of honour will it?

As to the cup well there is an example of a raw statistic that hides the truth. The way we capitulated in the semi final is not something I want to remember so IMO it is the last statistics anyone should point to as something positive about 2007.

2008
another final eliminator and again losing to the eventual champions from 4th position in the league is not a complete washout is it?

Of course it is. We lost! We also didn't get as far in the cup as the previous season. It was very similar to 2007. Inconsistent play led to a low league finish so we left ourselves too much to do in the playoffs for second season running.

2009
ok not so good in the league but again we are within reach of another major final
just ask the Salford, castleford or hull fans would they have liked to be a similar position or even the wires fans who,s club motive is to spend spend spend and get sweet fa back
overall i don,t think Brian noble has done too bad of a job although this year i must admit i would like to see more improvement in our consistency

Well in 2009 for the third season in a row unless we have a run as we did in 2006 we will have left ourselves too much to do in the playoffs for three seasons running. That is why Noble has done a bad job.

The fact we have ended up in two season and look like doing the same three seasons running, down the bottom end of the playoff qualifiers isn't good enough.

We may well get to Wembley and we may even win it but just as with Clarke and McInnes after 1985 that ought to be Noble's swan song because on the evidence of the past three and a half season if he stays it will be another 7 years before another trophy IMO.

Dave

2007 we finished 4th, only deductions took us down tho 6th.
obviously the cup semi was a shocker but we got back up the league that year which surely you can see was a positive.
2009 we have far more consustency of performance this season. the major low perfomances seem to have been removed. before too long, this change in attitude and some good recruitment will lead to more consistency of results.
what evidence is there that we won't finish the season as strong as we did in the last couple of years? nobles teams have played their best at the business end every season he's been a coach. we can still comfortably get to 5th or 6th and that would give us a shot at the play offs. there's some teams up there with little play off experience and you no longer have to beat everyone above you to get to the grand final.
most of you seem to think if we don't win a trophy every season, its a disaster. i know the standards at wigan are high but things have changed. i don't know what you guys will think when the salary cap REALLY bites and you have to build for 5 years for 1 year of success like in australia.

[cpwigan]

It still is Wigan RLFC. Maybe you will have to accept that the game now is far more competitive than when Wigan had the glory years. During the glory years crossing the Penines was long distance. Australia was somewhere you emigrated to for a tenner, Posh houses had tellies, Two cars in the street was only knobb hill. 6foot tall was a giant. A prop played 80 minutes unless the doc declared him unfit. Holidays were a week in Blackpool. Matches were a mudbath wrestle where teams were unrecognisable 5 minutes into the game. Most of the Yorkshire fans worked down the pits. Wigan reigned supreme. Things are different now. Money talks to players world wide. Gone are the days where because you grew your own you were the best. That happens now on the park. Talent is lent out to other clubs to mature then brought back. Scott Moore Huddersfield primr example will be reclaimed bt stains, Mossup will come back to us. The playmakers of many teams do come from a few clubs. Wigan is a prime provider but they cannot keep them all. Skill levels have been dispersed throughout superleague. That tips the scales to a far leveler playing field.
Ration books and horses are a thing of the past. So are Wigan glory years. Now we have a game where the mighty will rise and fall. We will reach your goal CP in the next couple of years if we stay with the team we have got. You seem to want all out change, In a few years we will go into decline again. Leeds are struggling to reach the hights this year. StH will be the same. The second half of the season will be interesting as top runners slide, Wigan will finish possibly top 4. Huddersfield and wire will be in the mix. HKR I expect will slide. Cats and Hull will struggle. Wakefield and Harliquins will struggle to be top 8. Cas will be overtaken by Wire soon.
It is interesting if you take off the Wigan blinkers and look at the league as a whole.
Jim

You haven't got a clue Jim sorry but your comments re Trent Barrett made you a joke. BTW Trent became captain of the bottom club in the NRL and since he did they have won 2 successive games are no longer bottom. Hardly your none team player.

Maybe you will have to accept that the game now is far more competitive than when Wigan had the glory years.

This comment shows you either do not read or have no knowledge. Wigan's glory years is not just about the 80's and 90's that you seem to assume it is.

Wigan RLFC is a club that was dominant in the 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's, Still damn good in the 60's. Even in the 70's up until the mid 70's they were good, reaching finals, 82/3 to 1995/6 great, won in 98, won in 2002. Until 2004ish we were still a top team in SL reaching GFs, cup finals etc.

The current Wigan RLFC is on a par with the Wigan RLFC from 1976-1982. That is UNACCEPTABLE.

During the glory years crossing the Penines was long distance.

What utter rubbish. RL had pro teams in Wales, London in the 50's, we had a very good Welsh and London team in the 80's. We had a proper Liverpool team in the 1950's / 60's.

RL peaked in France in the 1950's and 60's. We even hasd a South African team back then.

Nor does it matter were the teams are from. It is the quality of the players they have that matters and trust me there were FAR FAR MORE talented players in the past than there are now.

Matches were a mudbath wrestle where teams were unrecognisable 5 minutes into the game. Most of the Yorkshire fans worked down the pits. Wigan reigned supreme.

So every match was a mudbath. I give up with you. How many did you watch. Exactly. Wigan did not reign supreme all the time because the amount of great teams was far greater. RL in Britain peaked between 1958 and 1962. Even when our own fans swallow the nonsense that we trampled the opposition in the 80s and 90's they fail to understand that Widnes were stronger than us week in week out for 2 seasons, that Leeds spent far far more money than Wigan. OUR OWN FANS INSULT THE TEAMS OF THE 80's and 90's BY THEIR IGNORANCE.

Gone are the days where because you grew your own you were the best.

It never was, it never will be. Do you think Jim Sullivan, Ces Mountford, Lance Todd, Mick Sullivan, Billy B were Wiganers. You will never see me claim Wigan should have a team of Wiganers. What you will see me say is Wigan has a huge advantage over every other RL club because it can support start buys / imports with great homegrown talen. It is not an either or scenario. IT IS THE BEST OF BOTH.

However, you will see me say why do Wigan have an Aussie back rower when it is clear to anybody that the one position Wigan have huge depth in is backrowers.

Why do Wigan have 3 outside backs from overseas. CRAZEE. Does anybody else?

You build a teasm with long term planning. Somebody tell me where the long term planning is when IL tries to sign a 7 just after resigning Tommy Lu Lu and have Pig long term. He signs a 7 so what do we do play Tommy / Pig at 9 and let a 10 year talent like MM go? of do we pay Pig too much and let him sell dot dogs? or do we wrap Sam T up instead of having a 10 year player?

Noble has not got a club about building a team because he NEVER HAS. If he does not admit it then perhaps Chris Caisley was a liar

[cpwigan]

2009 we have far more consistency of performance this season. The major low perfomances seem to have been removed.

How does that statement equate with

Wigan 16 7 0 9 374 321 14

Inconsistency is a trait of Wigan under Noble.

Lows. Wakefield? Catalan (Even IL sent Noble a txt telling him he would not get a new contract after that debacle)

Only 3 clubs in SL are not capable of achieving or bettering our record if they play the same number of games

St Helens 15 12 0 3 441 262 24
Hull K R 15 10 1 4 362 257 21
Leeds 15 10 0 5 379 237 20
Huddersfield 15 10 0 5 370 249 20
Harlequins RL 14 9 0 5 349 259 18
Wakefield 15 8 0 7 354 337 16
Wigan 16 7 0 9 374 321 14
Castleford 15 7 0 8 335 371 14
Hull 15 7 0 8 294 334 14
Warrington 15 7 0 8 345 392 14
Catalans Dragons 15 6 0 9 352 418 12

Sorry but our SQUAD is far far better than those results which means you have to look at the coach. A coach that has had 3 seasons and we still seem stuck in the same malaise. Surely Wigan RLFC has to represent something better than that. No wonder I created a thread called low aspirations. Several fans prove my point.

[pedro]

well said

[DaveO]

2007 we finished 4th, only deductions took us down tho 6th.
obviously the cup semi was a shocker but we got back up the league that year which surely you can see was a positive.

Not when you consider the contrast to how we played under Noble in 2006. The 2006 team went on a winning run that left them a whisker outside the playoffs despite Millwards best efforts. So 2007 was a season to kick on. We never matched that level of consistency and that inconsistency has been the pattern ever since.

2009 we have far more consustency of performance this season. the major low perfomances seem to have been removed.

You seem to be forgetting the results. The results show we are as inconsistent as ever.

before too long, this change in attitude and some good recruitment will lead to more consistency of results.

As Geoff has pointed out on a couple of occasions when we win we have won well in terms of points ahead of the opposition but when we have lost we have lost close games. It won't be a change in attitude that gets us winning those games because as far as I can see the effort is there. The problem is as I have mentioned before when we go behind against a side like HKR we seem incapable of breaking their defence down and getting back in front.

It's stating the obvious if we worked out how to do that we would be fine but we have not done so yet and part of the problem is the coach who leaves out players like Tomkins and Ainscough who have that game breaking capability.

what evidence is there that we won't finish the season as strong as we did in the last couple of years?

I am not sure what you mean because we didn't finish the last two seasons strongly. We won two games in the playoffs each time if that is what you mean but league form wise we have not gone on consistent winning runs in the league to end the season in either of 2007 or 2008.

So what evidence is there we will buck this trend and have a repeat of the latter half of 2006, which is what we need to do?

nobles teams have played their best at the business end every season he's been a coach.

Again unless you mean two wins in the playoffs Noble's Wigan teams do not.

we can still comfortably get to 5th or 6th and that would give us a shot at the play offs.

All the evidence says teams finishing down in 5th or 6th will not progress very far in the playoffs.

there's some teams up there with little play off experience and you no longer have to beat everyone above you to get to the grand final.
most of you seem to think if we don't win a trophy every season, its a disaster.

Who thinks that? What I am on about is correcting the blindingly obvious problem of inconsistency in the league that means we stand little chance in the playoffs. The season as a whole is important and until the club wins consistently all season the best it can expect is a couple of wins in the playoffs.

I would say the problem with the fans is not that they expect to win a trophy every season but that they think a couple of wins in the playoffs is good enough AND they fail to recognise how important it is to finish high up in the league. Then we have a far better chance of winning the GF.

i know the standards at wigan are high but things have changed. i don't know what you guys will think when the salary cap REALLY bites and you have to build for 5 years for 1 year of success like in australia.

The fact of the matter is some teams have over the past few seasons have been playing better than we have and winning trophies when we have not. All we want is to be on a par with them. Our league form is not good enough for that to be the case.

I have no idea what you mean by when the salary cap really bites. Are you suggesting standards will drop further?

Dave

[cpwigan]

For those happy with the season so far. A club has now played an equal number of games to Wigan RLFC

Wakefield 16 8 0 8 376 373 16
Wigan 16 7 0 9 374 321 14

Surely to God nobody believes Wigan with our squad, resources should have an inferior record to Wakefield?

That cannot be acceptable IMO

[OAMJSONA]

OK lets all look at a few facts since Brian noble came
2006
Wigan were in dire straits,facing relegation and a team that lacked commitment,motivation and the will to compete
Ian Millward sacked enter Brian noble
in the season he arrived, he got rid of the dead wood and signed two players who you must admit steered us away from the drop zone and not only that we were only two points off a play-off place at the end of the season

Milllward was a disaster there is no two ways about it but you have to wonder if he had been allowed to get rid of the dead wood and sign Fielden and Dobson instead of the likes of Wilkes what would have happened.

My view is there wasn't a lot wrong with the team we had and with the addition of two players it showed what it was capable of. This IMO set expectations for the next season.

2007
one challenge cup semi final and one final eliminator from 6th place in the league in his first full year which after the turmoil of the previous year isn,t too bad
the best comeback in rugby league history, to win 31-30 after being 30points to six down with 25 minutes to go against a full strength Bradford team isn,t bad either

2007 was a massive disappointment. Yes we won that epic 31-30 game but we were a busted flush afterwards because earlier on in the season we failed to build on 2006 so left ourselves with having to win games like that. That win was probably more than we could expect given where we finished in the regular season and given the way we played all season (inconsistently) but at the end of the day it isn't any achievement at all because we were knocked out and won nothing. That win won't be included in any Wigan roll of honour will it?

As to the cup well there is an example of a raw statistic that hides the truth. The way we capitulated in the semi final is not something I want to remember so IMO it is the last statistics anyone should point to as something positive about 2007.

2008
another final eliminator and again losing to the eventual champions from 4th position in the league is not a complete washout is it?

Of course it is. We lost! We also didn't get as far in the cup as the previous season. It was very similar to 2007. Inconsistent play led to a low league finish so we left ourselves too much to do in the playoffs for second season running.

2009
ok not so good in the league but again we are within reach of another major final
just ask the Salford, castleford or hull fans would they have liked to be a similar position or even the wires fans who,s club motive is to spend spend spend and get sweet fa back
overall i don,t think Brian noble has done too bad of a job although this year i must admit i would like to see more improvement in our consistency

Well in 2009 for the third season in a row unless we have a run as we did in 2006 we will have left ourselves too much to do in the playoffs for three seasons running. That is why Noble has done a bad job.

The fact we have ended up in two season and look like doing the same three seasons running, down the bottom end of the playoff qualifiers isn't good enough.

We may well get to Wembley and we may even win it but just as with Clarke and McInnes after 1985 that ought to be Noble's swan song because on the evidence of the past three and a half season if he stays it will be another 7 years before another trophy IMO.

Dave

2007 we finished 4th, only deductions took us down tho 6th.
obviously the cup semi was a shocker but we got back up the league that year which surely you can see was a positive.
2009 we have far more consustency of performance this season. the major low perfomances seem to have been removed. before too long, this change in attitude and some good recruitment will lead to more consistency of results.
what evidence is there that we won't finish the season as strong as we did in the last couple of years? nobles teams have played their best at the business end every season he's been a coach. we can still comfortably get to 5th or 6th and that would give us a shot at the play offs. there's some teams up there with little play off experience and you no longer have to beat everyone above you to get to the grand final.
most of you seem to think if we don't win a trophy every season, its a disaster. i know the standards at wigan are high but things have changed. i don't know what you guys will think when the salary cap REALLY bites and you have to build for 5 years for 1 year of success like in australia.

Millward was a good coach it was the board who did not back him in the changing room when he wanted to weed the the chaff out and other cultures

He coached both my lads and they say to this day that he is the best coach they have worked with