Joel moves closer to RU switch

[southernpie]

Contracts should be honored, politicians should be clean cut, governments should be honest, benefits should be for the needy, children shouldnt starve, people should not be discriminated against, celebrities should be role models, marriage should be for life ya ya ya ya ya ya ya

do you not get bored of stating blatant idealistic principles dave, this is the REAL world money talks and quite frankly anyone who doesn't think Joel should move when he has the chance to secure his and his family's future financially for the rest of his years is selfish or jealous

The real world of sport and sporting contracts is clearly something you do not understand. I am sick to death of the parallels people keep drawing between professional sportsmen on fixed term contracts and the rest of us who are ordinary employees on a months notice because there aren't any.

If Wigan do not get offered what they deem enough compensation for JT then they should say no deal. The fact if they said "yes" to a sub standard offer that might allow JT to set himself up for life has nothing to do with it. If Wigan said no, the deal would simply not happen. Sarries would not go to court to force the issue because if they did it would set a precident for all sport that as soon as any player was offered more money he could leave. They do not want that any more than Wigan do.

The opinions expressed in this thread that we should wish JT on his way because he can earn a packet baffle me because if you think that then you can wave bye bye to any decent player we may produce. Any.

The club is just not tenable as a going concern as a professional entity if as soon as someone waves the cheque book at a player they can leave. Contracts should only be allowed to be broken if it is deemed to be in Wigan's interest. No other reason.

Seems to me people are getting entrenched and blinkered with their own arguments round here, taking polarised views of others arguments.

Yes WF1985 it is the REAL world and no-one would blame JT for looking after his future, but as DaveO says only if WWRLFC get adequate compensation. DaveO I don't think anyone here means JT can just walk away and earn extra quids for no cost, they are just saying, good on the lad if he can better himself financially IF the compensation is adequate to WWRLFC.

Now grow up the lot of you and stop arguing around in circles.

[Second Row]

there may well be an 'escape clause' in his contract the conditions of which non of us know ,and will never get to know , Jason went. Ashton,went and Rads nearly OK there may have been an end of contract situation with any or all of those but lets face it we did come out the other side

[DaveO]

there may well be an 'escape clause' in his contract the conditions of which non of us know ,and will never get to know , Jason went. Ashton,went and Rads nearly OK there may have been an end of contract situation with any or all of those but lets face it we did come out the other side

Ashton was out of contract (I think). Eastmond at Saints has seen his contract out. Jason Robinson saw his contract out. Our young payer Thornily who went to Sale was out of contract.

Karl Pryce saw his contract out did before going when he left Bradford as did Hape. Smith from Leeds saw his contract out.

Andy Farrell didn't but he was at the end of his career and we still got a huge load of cash.

The fact of the matter is the majority of RL players who have gone to RU recently have done so after seeing their contracts out. I wonder why when they are "wortless"?

[Wigan_forever1985]

there may well be an 'escape clause' in his contract the conditions of which non of us know ,and will never get to know , Jason went. Ashton,went and Rads nearly OK there may have been an end of contract situation with any or all of those but lets face it we did come out the other side

Ashton was out of contract (I think). Eastmond at Saints has seen his contract out. Jason Robinson saw his contract out. Our young payer Thornily who went to Sale was out of contract.

Karl Pryce saw his contract out did before going when he left Bradford as did Hape. Smith from Leeds saw his contract out.

Andy Farrell didn't but he was at the end of his career and we still got a huge load of cash.

The fact of the matter is the majority of RL players who have gone to RU recently have done so after seeing their contracts out. I wonder why when they are "wortless"?

Right lets look at this logically though.

Firstly Ashton was released early from his contract by wigan

For a start Hape and Robinson where coming to the end of their league careers so they werent likely to get another contract in league union people would have known this and why would they pay to get someone out a contract who is coming out anyway.

Eastmond, well he saw out his 2 year contract ok ill grant you even though he has been nothing but a waste of cap this season for st helens. Again though he was only offered the deal with a year left on his contract a union club arent going to pay compo for the sake of holding on a year like people have said contracts work both ways.

Smith another yes he saw out his leeds contract but lets not forget he did NOT complete his union contract to come back to leeds.

Pyrce well lets face it no-one comes looking for this guy so he's quite happy to see out contracts.

Farrell? well by your logic we should have made him rot in the reserves and got no payout for him whatsoever.

Contracts protect the club from having their prized assets stolen for nothing, not protect them from being stolen at all.

If this was football and Joel was earning x'million a year and moved for a few more 100k id be upset and would be right behind you in the make him see out the 5 years.

Its not, its rugby league the guy will never earn the money in RL that he can in RU, the club will never be able to afford having a player on Joels contract not playing.

Sarries will come in with compo Joel will go play an easier game for a much bigger wedge and will hopefully set himself up if he's smart so that when he does hang up the boots he can sit back and relax and fair play to him id do the same!

[DaveO]

there may well be an 'escape clause' in his contract the conditions of which non of us know ,and will never get to know , Jason went. Ashton,went and Rads nearly OK there may have been an end of contract situation with any or all of those but lets face it we did come out the other side

Ashton was out of contract (I think). Eastmond at Saints has seen his contract out. Jason Robinson saw his contract out. Our young payer Thornily who went to Sale was out of contract.

Karl Pryce saw his contract out did before going when he left Bradford as did Hape. Smith from Leeds saw his contract out.

Andy Farrell didn't but he was at the end of his career and we still got a huge load of cash.

The fact of the matter is the majority of RL players who have gone to RU recently have done so after seeing their contracts out. I wonder why when they are "wortless"?

Firstly Ashton was released early from his contract by wigan

Fair enough, I was not sure if he was released or was at the end of a contract. I thought it was the latter but I will take your word for it.

For a start Hape and Robinson where coming to the end of their league careers so they werent likely to get another contract in league union people would have known this and why would they pay to get someone out a contract who is coming out anyway.

Jason Robinson was 26 when he left Wigan (he's only 37 now!) so to say he was coming to the end of his career and would not have got another league contract is ridiculous. Hape was 27 when he left Bradford so equally ridiculous.

So both at the peak of their game only went when their contracts were complete.

Eastmond, well he saw out his 2 year contract ok ill grant you even though he has been nothing but a waste of cap this season for st helens. Again though he was only offered the deal with a year left on his contract a union club arent going to pay compo for the sake of holding on a year like people have said contracts work both ways.

So you agree, he saw his contract out!

Smith another yes he saw out his leeds contract but lets not forget he did NOT complete his union contract to come back to leeds.

Pyrce well lets face it no-one comes looking for this guy so he's quite happy to see out contracts.

Pryce was back then considered a major loss to RL with a big future in front of him so to say no one was looking for him is ridiculous. Gloucester gave him a three year deal and certainly did come looking.

Smith (as happened with Pryce in the end) didn't make it in RU so a failure in RU being released has no parallel to a player at the top of his game leaving RL.

But both, as I said, saw the RL contracts out.

Farrell? well by your logic we should have made him rot in the reserves and got no payout for him whatsoever.

No, my logic says if Wigan had not deemed they were getting enough compensation he would not have been released and the contract would have held. He would have been no where near the reserves and as a professional player if Wigan had knocked RU back he would have played on without any problem of that I am sure.

Contracts protect the club from having their prized assets stolen for nothing, not protect them from being stolen at all.

The idea a five year contract is there to put up the amount of compensation a club will get is pointless unless clubs are prepared to knock back sub-standard offers.

No one has yet "stolen" any players. As I have pointed out most of them have gone only when their contracts have expired and those that have not, which are few and far between have resulted in compensation being paid. That does not equate to any inevitability they we can't keep players and the fact most have only gone when their contracts were up suggests contracts are not worthless.

If this was football and Joel was earning x'million a year and moved for a few more 100k id be upset and would be right behind you in the make him see out the 5 years.

Its not, its rugby league the guy will never earn the money in RL that he can in RU, the club will never be able to afford having a player on Joels contract not playing.

Why do you assume they would not play him or Joel would spit the dummy out? Tevez looks a right prat and has done himself no favours in getting another club and any player in any sport who goes off into a similar sulk would damage their own prospects in a similar way.

Sarries will come in with compo Joel will go play an easier game for a much bigger wedge and will hopefully set himself up if he's smart so that when he does hang up the boots he can sit back and relax and fair play to him id do the same!

How much compo is probably now the major issue. If it is less than £300K then IMO IL will have let him go too cheaply and should have called Sarries and Joels bluff. I still believe that given the nature of sporting contracts that if you are not prepared to commit to a club for five years come what may you should never agree to sign such a long deal. Any club that says to a player here is a five year deal but you can leave before then if you like will not got a fair level of compensation because those in the market know the club will not resist the approach.

In other words contracts have got to be something that do in fact bind players to clubs or the higher level of compensation you reckon they will get for having a player on a long deal would not be offered. Sarries could offer £50K, take it or leave it and if Wigan said no then we would lose him anyway. The only reason they will offer a large amount of cash is that Wigan can say no and keep Joel.

Sooner or later Wigan will IMO have to say "no" because as well all know Sam will be next on the list and Wigan can't simply stand by and see their top contracted players walk out one after the other regardless of how much compo is offered.

[butt monkey]

If I were you Dave I would "give up". Fans either don't understand or don't want to understand exactly what you are attempting to explain to them. Myself I think it is the former

[TrueBlueWarrior]

If I were you Dave I would "give up". Fans either don't understand or don't want to understand exactly what you are attempting to explain to them. Myself I think it is the former

So by that post BM you are suggesting that posters that don't agree with DaveO's posts/opinion are either more likely to be thick/stupid or narrow minded and can't accept other peoples opinions? Well I personally take offence to that because I completely understand what DaveO is saying and agree that it should be expected that a player should see out his contract as I have said on previous posts, but I am open minded enough to also realise that this is NEVER going to happen because we do not live in an IDEAL world. Therefore, others should stop arguing a point that to be honest is falling on deaf ears and has no real relevance because that is not the way it is or ever going to be in sport. I think one thing we all agree on or at least should agree on is that WIGAN WARRIORS RLFC is what matters and I am sure we will be just fine with or without JT. Finally just for the record good luck to JT whatever he decides to do because if he goes I for one do not blame him because whether we like it or not MONEY makes the world go round and if he stays he will always give 100% for us because that is the type of bloke he is. End of story.

[Sutty]

When I was in the Army, you had to give 1 years notice when you wanted to leave. If you were one of the squaddies who hated being in the army, and just wanted to get out, then that last year just seemed to drag on forever. They tended to be lazy at work, their own standards slipped and they often became somewhat of a burden on the rest of the troop. I think this was because you were being employed in a role that you felt would be more rewarding if you were working for a different company. In he end, what started out as merely a period of waiting to change employer, often became a feeling of resentment because you felt that you potential earnings were being affected, purely. Because you were being forced to see out a lengthy notice period. I don't know if it's still like that or not.

I can see why people are saying we should make Joel see out his 5 year contract, but that isnt in the best interests of the player or the club. Whilst I feel that Joel would continue to be a consumate professional, he would no doubt start to get more and more distracted, when thinking about what he could have been earning in RU. Likewise, the club hold on to a player and then let him go to RU for no fee at all, when his contract expires. Whereas if they had let him go sooner, the club could have made a nice profit and possibly used it in helping secure the signing of a top class centre.

Despite all the arguments for keeping Joel and making him fulfill his contract, I just can't see how it can be of any great benefit to either party concerned.

[Wigan_forever1985]

I think its a complicated issue really not simply solved by a matter of whats right and wrong. Professional Sportsmen and women are slightly different in terms of employment to ourselves but added to that rugby league is different again to most sports. For its popularity it most be one of the least paying professional sports and by and large one of the hardest on the body.

I dont think in sport you could get paid less for doing as much!.

This leads to the issue of money for players who if they are lucky enough to see out their career will more than likely have to find another job role in the latter years of their lives.

Like i said the football analogy is useless because the money they earn means that any move for them is funded by greed due to the fact that 9/10 if your a good standard player you will have earnt enough if your smart with your money in the first couple of years to live a pretty decent standard of life

[thomo]

has the club made any statement on these rumours?

Even if it is a no comment