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Re: Willie Isa - new contract?
Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:18 pm
by TrueBlueWarrior
morley pie eater wrote:old hooker wrote:Cant catch a ball, makes a break once a season and is a penalty machine , get rid asap
You're entitled to your opinion on matters which are purely opinion, such as "he's too ugly to play for Wigan". Saying "he's a penalty machine" is something that should have some basis in fact.
How would you define "penalty machine"? Who else would you include in this category?
Here's some data which may help:
Wigan's top penalties:
Joel 14
Tautai 13
Lockers 10
Isa 10
Faz 10
FPN 10
Now, without evidence, I'd say that Isa has played more minutes than just about all the others in that list.
Another way to compare is number of tackles made, since most penalties are awarded in or around the tackle.
Isa 502
Tautai 440
Faz 407
Joel 365
FPN 355
Lockers 261
Not only is Isa our top tackler this season, but he concedes less penalties per tackle than anyone!
If you were to apply the term "penalty machine" to anyone, Lockers would have to be first on your list.
Finally, the league's top penalty givers are way ahead of Wigan's:
Fifita, Watts, Minichiello and Ikahihifo have each conceded 18, for example, and I'd have any of them in my team.
I would love someone to do the exact same as this regarding training ground injuries for us and other SL teams as a comparison, I have a feeling nobody will though!
Re: Willie Isa - new contract?
Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:20 pm
by TrueBlueWarrior
morley pie eater wrote:moto748 wrote:Don't go confusing us with facts, now, Morley!
My apologies, Moto. I'm too old to keep up with the age of "alternative facts" and "fake news"
Never let the truth ruin a good conspiracy!!
Re: Willie Isa - new contract?
Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:39 pm
by morleypieeater
I'd love to do it too, TBW, but I'd guess it's almost impossible to get data*.
What's even more frustrating is there don't seem to be stats on minutes played, which makes some comparisons very difficult.
*Markill is the man who might, though?
Re: Willie Isa - new contract?
Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:01 pm
by michael inch stoke
morley pie eater wrote:michael inch stoke wrote:Isa has been poor this season when he has been one of the more experienced players in the side we have had available. Never breaks the line and given away crucial penalties that have cost us tries against us.
No way should he be given a new contract, average at best.
Tackle Busts: 18
Clean Breaks: 2
So you would give him a new contract based on these facts?
Re: Willie Isa - new contract?
Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:50 pm
by morleypieeater
michael inch stoke wrote:morley pie eater wrote:michael inch stoke wrote:Isa has been poor this season when he has been one of the more experienced players in the side we have had available. Never breaks the line and given away crucial penalties that have cost us tries against us.
No way should he be given a new contract, average at best.
Tackle Busts: 18
Clean Breaks: 2
So you would give him a new contract based on these facts?
My replies were to point out the facts to people whose opinions seemed to contradict them. I didn't say what I thought about Isa as such.
My opinion is that he's a decent player to have as back-up. I wouldn't sign him for the money that SOL or Tommy may be on, but I suspect that we pay him a moderate wage and, if so, I think he's worth keeping, especially as he can cover centre in emergencies.
I did say on another thread that I think he's tended to overplay at times recently, maybe believing he needed to step up with so many senior players out. I think he should stick to doing the basics well.
Re: Willie Isa - new contract?
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:42 pm
by markill
Unless he is really cheap, Isa wouldn't be getting a new contract for me.
Yes, he has made more tackles than anyone else for Wigan. Well done, hardworking player, we all appreciate that. But he has also missed the most tackles, and whilst yes that sort of fits - make the most, miss the most - his tackle success rate is 92%, 11th best for the club this season.
The average tackle success for all players in Super League is 93%. That includes all backs and halves who have a lot worse tackle success than your average forward.
Also, if you add up missed tackles, penalties and errors (i.e. negative plays) he has made more than any other Wigan player - 70, 12 more than the next player, who is Joel Tomkins, and 18 ahead of 3rd play FPN. All three have been below expectations this year in general and deserve some criticism for that. If you go to a per-game average, he's still had the most negative plays in the side this season.
Re: Willie Isa - new contract?
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:42 pm
by ian.birchall
morley pie eater wrote:moto748 wrote:Don't go confusing us with facts, now, Morley!
My apologies, Moto. I'm too old to keep up with the age of "alternative facts" and "fake news"
Surely we should be saying dont let the facts get in the way of an opinion.
I still think his original signing was a poor one, he was never true Wigan quality.
Re: Willie Isa - new contract?
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:53 pm
by morley pie eater
ian.birchall wrote:morley pie eater wrote:moto748 wrote:Don't go confusing us with facts, now, Morley!
My apologies, Moto. I'm too old to keep up with the age of "alternative facts" and "fake news"
Surely we should be saying dont let the facts get in the way of an opinion.
I still think his original signing was a poor one, he was never true Wigan quality.
I think I agree, Ian. But a Wigan quality player before the salary cap was different than now, surely? I still think Isa is a good signing in this era. Under the cap, you need some cheap and cheerful and preferably versatile players as well as good young (and therefore cheap) ones. It may be unfortunate that we've had to play a back-up player so much, but that's hardly his fault?
Re: Willie Isa - new contract?
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:59 pm
by moto748
As has been noted, at one time we had squad players of the calibre of McGinty and Panapa. Those days obviously long gone...
Re: Willie Isa - new contract?
Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:11 am
by butt monkey
morleypieeater wrote:
I think he's worth keeping, especially as he can cover centre in emergencies.
My Grandmother can cover centre position and she's been dead for over 20 years!!!
Get away from this obvious rubbish that forcing him into a position he clearly cannot play any longer would be either conducive to the team or himself. He is a forward and has been for the last 5 years.
Might as well say FPN can "play" centre
