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[won't bother quoting previous posts.]

Dave, yes I do have an opinion on the topic. I had a light-hearted dig at you because you come across as so strident, even angry. As to your reply to Meds, I'm largely in agreement with you (!)

And thanks, Meds, for the info re Gregg's. I'll be booking me & the Mrs into Barrow now. Only been twice since me dad took usi winkle-picking on Walney Island in the 1950s.

I see the 2-way pull on RL. We want to expand, but we want to be a community game. We want to move from the "M62 corridor" (though it's population is 8-10 million or 20% of England), but no-one wants their team to be relegated, or to merge with local rivals.

What worries me is that we give power to someone like Hearns and end up with mergers, half-baked new teams planted in Edinburgh or Bristol. Remember Uncle Mo's plan?

On the other hand, I do want us to grow organically. I'm hopeful for Toronto, if not 100% convinced yet. But don't rush NY or wherever unless there is very firm commitment from big backers.

I'd favour 2 divisions of 10. Play each other 3 times a season, or playbeach other twice and introduce a new comp that could be sold to BBC.

The 2 X 10 would allow your Fevs etc a good standard in SL2, whilst avoiding diluting standards in SL, or SL1.

old hooker wrote:IL does not believe this nònsense he is spouting, he has a very large ego and thinks that being first to deliver new practices within RL will give him a higher profile and an opportunity to make money for himself, RL comes second to IL after his pursuit of financial gain.

With all due respect to your opinion that is a load of crap.

DaveO wrote:

medlocke wrote:IMO Barrow Raiders could be turned into a SL club with enough money invested, Barrow is a big rugby town with plenty of home grown legends, there's plenty of raw talent around the area, Barrow has a population which is bigger than Castleford, add to that the surrounding areas of Dalton, Askam, Ulverston, Millom and all the other small towns and villages, Giving a potential for better attendances than the average at Salford, there are plenty of areas for the development of a new stadium, there is also quite a bit of money being invested in the area at the moment, the town has good rail and road links so it is more accessible than further up the coast, also there will be a third Greggs opening in the near future, If only the club could attract the right investors & sponsors and be given a chance by the RFL.

(Waits for DaveO to rip it to bits )

Why would I rip the suggestion to bits?

What I will say is prompted by what Wiganer Ted said about Workington and that is they got relegated after one season in SL. That should tell you that if you really want RL to expand you have to keep clubs in the geographies you want to expand in, IN THE TOP FLIGHT.

There is simply no place for P&R when the objective is a geographically diverse game attractive to national sponsors and TV companies.

Had Les Cats lost the million pound game last season RL in the top flight would have been operating in the most restricted set of areas I would have ever have known. London are out of it. No team in Cumbria. None in Wales. Had Les Cats gone down, none in France and replaced by another M62 team.

Expanding the game and P&R are incompatible. You can't just keep your fingers crossed and hope the expansion sides are good enough to guarantee themselves a permanent place in the top flight. Franchising in some form or another must return if you want someone to stump up enough cash to run a team in Barrow.

Was only joking Dave, i recall quite a few years back there was talk of a money man willing to invest, there was also talk of a new waterfront stadium at the new marina development, for me Barrow is the only solution, Carlisle is a no go, Whitehaven and Workington would never merge, Millom is too small lol, Kendal and Penrith are Union strongholds. I think you are right about some sort of franchise system, why not try a two tier Super League, use the better sides from the Championship and add the expansion sides and one or two new ones, Toronto, Toulouse, a Spanish side, Belfast?, Dublin?, Glasgow?, etc, then you could have regular promotion and relegation within a well run franchise system, just make sure that no Hetherington has anything to do with anybody in power.

medlocke wrote:Was only joking Dave, i recall quite a few years back there was talk of a money man willing to invest, there was also talk of a new waterfront stadium at the new marina development, for me Barrow is the only solution, Carlisle is a no go, Whitehaven and Workington would never merge, Millom is too small lol, Kendal and Penrith are Union strongholds. I think you are right about some sort of franchise system, why not try a two tier Super League, use the better sides from the Championship and add the expansion sides and one or two new ones, Toronto, Toulouse, a Spanish side, Belfast?, Dublin?, Glasgow?, etc, then you could have regular promotion and relegation within a well run franchise system, just make sure that no Hetherington has anything to do with anybody in power.

I think it would all come down to money. Is there enough money to run such a two tier system with full time professional clubs such that moving between tiers is not going to result in players contracts ripped up and less TV money for the lower tier clubs?

Current thinking says not. The SL clubs want all the cash and given there is comparatively little cash on the table I can't disagree with that.

If you want P&R you need to have enough money and the right environment for relegation not to be such a disaster. We don't have that in RL because once out of the top flight you fall off a cliff in terms of cash and prestige.

medlocke wrote:

DaveO wrote:

medlocke wrote:IMO Barrow Raiders could be turned into a SL club with enough money invested, Barrow is a big rugby town with plenty of home grown legends, there's plenty of raw talent around the area, Barrow has a population which is bigger than Castleford, add to that the surrounding areas of Dalton, Askam, Ulverston, Millom and all the other small towns and villages, Giving a potential for better attendances than the average at Salford, there are plenty of areas for the development of a new stadium, there is also quite a bit of money being invested in the area at the moment, the town has good rail and road links so it is more accessible than further up the coast, also there will be a third Greggs opening in the near future, If only the club could attract the right investors & sponsors and be given a chance by the RFL.

(Waits for DaveO to rip it to bits )

Why would I rip the suggestion to bits?

What I will say is prompted by what Wiganer Ted said about Workington and that is they got relegated after one season in SL. That should tell you that if you really want RL to expand you have to keep clubs in the geographies you want to expand in, IN THE TOP FLIGHT.

There is simply no place for P&R when the objective is a geographically diverse game attractive to national sponsors and TV companies.

Had Les Cats lost the million pound game last season RL in the top flight would have been operating in the most restricted set of areas I would have ever have known. London are out of it. No team in Cumbria. None in Wales. Had Les Cats gone down, none in France and replaced by another M62 team.

Expanding the game and P&R are incompatible. You can't just keep your fingers crossed and hope the expansion sides are good enough to guarantee themselves a permanent place in the top flight. Franchising in some form or another must return if you want someone to stump up enough cash to run a team in Barrow.

Was only joking Dave, i recall quite a few years back there was talk of a money man willing to invest, there was also talk of a new waterfront stadium at the new marina development, for me Barrow is the only solution, Carlisle is a no go, Whitehaven and Workington would never merge, Millom is too small lol, Kendal and Penrith are Union strongholds. I think you are right about some sort of franchise system, why not try a two tier Super League, use the better sides from the Championship and add the expansion sides and one or two new ones, Toronto, Toulouse, a Spanish side, Belfast?, Dublin?, Glasgow?, etc, then you could have regular promotion and relegation within a well run franchise system, just make sure that no Hetherington has anything to do with anybody in power.

Thanks for the insight meds it was the Whitehaven Workington amalgamation that I had in mind but like you say would never happen. Love to see Barrow given the resources after all we have tried every where else why not Barrow stands as good of a chance as the places we've tried up to date.

No money in Cumbria I reckon. Someone in the area should setup a franchise if there is.

In terms of expansion of the "Wigan RL" brand.
There is a reply on TotalRL that says "Wigan have nabbed the biggest shirt sponsorship in the club's history".
If that is true then it is surely down to IL's views and implementation of his plan.
No doubt we shall have to wait to see if it is true or not.

Fujiman wrote:

old hooker wrote:IL does not believe this nònsense he is spouting, he has a very large ego and thinks that being first to deliver new practices within RL will give him a higher profile and an opportunity to make money for himself, RL comes second to IL after his pursuit of financial gain.

With all due respect to your opinion that is a load of crap.[/quote
And so is your response but I believe it and can live with it

So the question is"how to expand rugby league"?.To be honest I don't think you can.You can tweak it here and their but it will never be as big as rugby union and if someone doesn't come up soon with a cunning plan then it's back to part-time.

yonmon wrote:So the question is"how to expand rugby league"?.To be honest I don't think you can.You can tweak it here and their but it will never be as big as rugby union and if someone doesn't come up soon with a cunning plan then it's back to part-time.

We are missing a key ingredient for expansion of Rugby League and it simpler than any rule change, any cap or structure. Its simple to bring new clientele into a sport you have to have at least one player who transcends the sport, who is known not just in the circles of their own game but to people outside the sport.

We actually nearly had it in Sam Tomkins, but we let him go to the NRL out of sight and Rugby League IMO has gone backwards ever since that moment.

How many people only watch snooker because of Ronnie O'Sulivan, how many people only watched cycling due to Bradley Wiggins?. How many people watch formula 1 because of Lewis Hamilton?, would union have made its biggest leap in popularity without the likes of Johnny Wilkinson? look at boxing now how many new fans is Anthony Joshua bringing in to that sport.

Without a poster boy you can throw resource after resource into a sport but you wont tap into that lucrative neutral resource. The issue with Rugby League recently is not only is it not bringing in the neutrals but its also turning away its core fan base in the pursuit of them. Ridiculous league structures that devalue the game have eroded interest in the weekly rounds which is the life blood of the sport, the Grand Final are great show pieces and capable of bringing in new fans but shouldnt be at the expense of the man on the terraces.'