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Re: Dont Blame The Ref
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:40 pm
by DaveO
robjoenz posted:
Kirkpatrick was not to know whether the ball was grounded before he shouted held or after he shouted held.
So what? He had made his descion. He caled held and then "fifths and last". That is two decisions if you like but the point is he made a decision.
OK, going from the Wakefield fans reaction it appeared to be after, but in that mess of players the ball could have gone down before the shout was made. Anyone can shout and ball that Kirkpatrick is useless but whoever said he wasn't confident about his decision is totally right, which is the whole point of the video referee!
The point you are missing is that the ref will go the the video ref
for a decsion nothaving made one himself,
not to check if a decsions he has
already made is right or wrong.
Do refs signal a try and then go the video ref to check if they got it right? No they don't.
Do refs signal no try and then go to the video ref to check if they got it right? No they don't.
So why did he go the video ref having made
his decsion of "held" and "fifth and last"?
He simply should not have done it.
Had there been an in goal official present he would have just needed a quick word to say that the tackle was already complete,
Not if he had made his decision he wouldn't. He would have already decided.
however, when the game is on SKY the video referee is supposed to replace the need for an in-goal judge so what was wrong with Kirkpatrick consulting him? Absolutely nothing!
Quite cleary as I have explained KK was totally in the wrong.
Do you now understand why?
Dave
Re: Dont Blame The Ref
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:50 pm
by DaveO
Wildcat posted:
is it just me or isnt it a penalty to the attacking side when players dont get off after saying held???
Only if they don't get off him as quick as the ref wants.
It is however a penalty to the defending side if the attacking player continues to play on after held is called.
shouldn't it then be advantage to wakefield.
No, penalty to Wigan.
maybe he placed his hand up because he thought solomona wasn't going to be able to score. then dropped the arm after seeing the miracle
I take it you are not being serious now? You can't call held, signal firth and last and then decide the play was not over.
Well yu can't unless you are KK that is.
why the hell did the video ref take 2 mins to give the try when he wasn't listening for KK's "Held!" maybe it was a Wigan player shouting held?
I have no idea but since he hasn't got any sound then he must have been checking for other things.
doesn't a player have to have full control of the ball when placing it down for a try?
The rule is downward pressure. For example if a ball was lieing on the ground in the in-goal area all a player has to do to score a try is pat it with his hand.
Dave
Re: Dont Blame The Ref
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:56 pm
by Wildcat
Seriously dont flatter yourself, your an average side in an average league, outside of Leeds and Saints the rest are pretty average sides.
Thats a big call, a fully fit Bradford and Hull side can live with the best, and their position in the league and previous seasons suggest they are still a force even though they've had a recent dip in form.We are a good side showing less than average form of late, but now we are playing as we should.
and I think thei I do think overall you play better than we do as a team and play to your strengths well,
Wigan were the better side on the night most wakey fans wud admit to that and u dominated field position, we were just more clinical and stronger in defence.
as for the remarks about your forwards, you have Solomona and Korkidas who are decent players.
Griffin nearly got into the gb squad last season, and nobody hits harder than Elima in defence. and big Dunc isn't a bad player either, jamie Field now he can be crap.
You played well enough to deserve the win last night I will give you that, that was a good perforamnce by Wakey standards, where as by ours it was very poor in many areas and you won by one try , enough said.
it should have been by two - mr orr!
we were ok, but we did well to win against KK, he really did give you everything he could, sure he let the second half flow, and we all arent sure about his premature hand on the crucial 4th tackle at the end. Solomona suprised us all. But we could have got penalties that you got.
Re: Dont Blame The Ref
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:02 pm
by wiganrldeanh
i just dont think that the refs are mentally and physically strong enough to referee a game. and are intimidated by some players. i know it isnt as bad as football but it exists
Re: Dont Blame The Ref
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:06 pm
by Wildcat
DaveO posted:
Wildcat posted:
is it just me or isnt it a penalty to the attacking side when players dont get off after saying held???
Only if they don't get off him as quick as the ref wants.
then maybe he gave advantage to Solo?
It is however a penalty to the defending side if the attacking player continues to play on after held is called.
but they both played on???
shouldn't it then be advantage to wakefield.
No, penalty to Wigan.
or wakefield.
I'm sure refs can over rule decisions anyway.even there own...ive seen refs give scrums one way then change without distress, why not this?
maybe he placed his hand up because he thought solomona wasn't going to be able to score. then dropped the arm after seeing the miracle
I take it you are not being serious now? You can't call held, signal firth and last and then decide the play was not over.
yes, and it was bad refereeing!! KK thought solo was going to be stopped he was preature, and withdrew his 5th decision, easy!
Well yu can't unless you are KK that is.
Wakey fans hate him, he didnt give the try remember and the video ref wasnt too keen to give it.
why the hell did the video ref take 2 mins to give the try when he wasn't listening for KK's "Held!" maybe it was a Wigan player shouting held?
I have no idea but since he hasn't got any sound then he must have been checking for other things.
yeah elbow touching the ground
doesn't a player have to have full control of the ball when placing it down for a try?
The rule is downward pressure. For example if a ball was lieing on the ground in the in-goal area all a player has to do to score a try is pat it with his hand.
Dave
yes but if a player already has the ball and loses control then its a knock on. its a different senario to diving on the ball.
Under super league guide lines it was a shocking decision
Re: Dont Blame The Ref
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:06 pm
by ChrisA
Wildcat posted:
Seriously dont flatter yourself, your an average side in an average league, outside of Leeds and Saints the rest are pretty average sides.
Thats a big call, a fully fit Bradford and Hull side can live with the best, and their position in the league and previous seasons suggest they are still a force even though they've had a recent dip in form.We are a good side showing less than average form of late, but now we are playing as we should.
and I think thei I do think overall you play better than we do as a team and play to your strengths well,
Wigan were the better side on the night most wakey fans wud admit to that and u dominated field position, we were just more clinical and stronger in defence.
as for the remarks about your forwards, you have Solomona and Korkidas who are decent players.
Griffin nearly got into the gb squad last season, and nobody hits harder than Elima in defence. and big Dunc isn't a bad player either, jamie Field now he can be crap.
You played well enough to deserve the win last night I will give you that, that was a good perforamnce by Wakey standards, where as by ours it was very poor in many areas and you won by one try , enough said.
it should have been by two - mr orr!
we were ok, but we did well to win against KK, he really did give you everything he could, sure he let the second half flow, and we all arent sure about his premature hand on the crucial 4th tackle at the end. Solomona suprised us all. But we could have got penalties that you got.
You did defend better overall but apart from our kicks we were awful in attack, you were more clinical in attack as our defence was terrible at tims again.
As for Hull and Bradford, they are far from being very good sides, on their day Saints or Leeds would walk over them both, the same with Warrington. Hull have been up there as a top 4/5 team for a few years but nothing more. Bradford are a shadow of the side they where 3 or 4 years ago.
As I say the only forwards I rate of yours are Solomona who deserves to ply in his trade in a side chalenging for honours, he is that good. Korkidas is a very destructive runner on his day, when he cuts out the silly errors that is.
I am not saying you're a bad side at all, that honour goes to Widnes and Leigh and possibly Salford. You are an average side who know how to play to their strengths as I said before, you are nothing more than that, and at the moment neither are Wigan.
Re: Dont Blame The Ref
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:10 pm
by Wildcat
in this current league Hull and Bradford are far from average.
There off very good, but they'll be in the shake up at the end of the season, and if we take out Hull again, my claims are valid about us
Re: Dont Blame The Ref
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:21 pm
by thegimble
Wildcat posted:
in this current league Hull and Bradford are far from average.
There off very good, but they'll be in the shake up at the end of the season, and if we take out Hull again, my claims are valid about us
Leeds and Saints we win both trophies between then this season. This is the only time in recent memory where it looks like we will finish below you.
This is 1 of your best
This is our worst.
That is our standards.
But next season we have Richards, Logan, Fletcher, Calderwood and Palaesina all on boards plus at least another 2.
We will be better you will be the same. Savour it because it wont happen again.
Re: Dont Blame The Ref
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:40 pm
by ChrisA
thegimble posted:
Wildcat posted:
in this current league Hull and Bradford are far from average.
There off very good, but they'll be in the shake up at the end of the season, and if we take out Hull again, my claims are valid about us
Leeds and Saints we win both trophies between then this season. This is the only time in recent memory where it looks like we will finish below you.
This is 1 of your best
This is our worst.
That is our standards.
But next season we have Richards, Logan, Fletcher, Calderwood and Palaesina all on boards plus at least another 2.
We will be better you will be the same. Savour it because it wont happen again.
Now now Mr Gimble, I tried to keep my posts decent and tried to not go down that road.
Re: Dont Blame The Ref
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:25 am
by robjoenz
Yes DaveO I have understood your point of view right from the outset so there is no need to be so patronising.
In my opinion Kirkpatrick called the last tackle and then realised something had happened that he had not seen because of a poor vantage point from behind the attacking line. The Wakefield players went upto him saying it was a try, the Wigan players saying that he had already shouted held (our captain was suggesting to him that he consult the video ref). He had no idea what had actually happened so in my opinion the fairest thing he could do was goto the video ref.
This is not the first time a referee has changed his mind. I have seen matches before where we have been given a scrum then the touch judge has given the referee some information and the feed was awarded to the opposition. I have also seen a scrum signalled and then a penalty given (accidental offside from a knock on I think it was).
Put it this way, had the incident been the other way around how many Wigan fans would have been stood there saying to their mate, "oh dear he's shouted held there so it's no try, fair enough!" We'd be going mental if he'd told us to play-the-ball. Had it gone to the video ref however it would be easier to accept. Video ref made the wrong decision!