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Wigan_forever1985 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:03 pm

morley pie eater wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:01 pm
Just one question: would you swap Sam for McShane?

Surprisingly maybe if you offered me a like for like swap - no I probably wouldn’t

I like mcshane and I think he is a better hooker than Powell but I don’t think he would be as effective at Wigan - cas play a more open game plan to us which suits mcshane

I would love to see a zippy hooker interchanged with Powell - I’m a big fan of the two hooker setup - if you have momentum your zippy hooker can make hay if you are controlling or trying to stop a teams momentum Sam would be great

Thanks for the honest and considered reply.

I asked myself the same question after looking at both their stats, and came to the same conclusion.

I also think about the differences between the likes of Kiss, Dermott, Hall, Riddell, McIlorum - but we had success with all of them. It's the intangible factors like the team's style, how the hooker blends with the other players: "A team is greater than the sum of its parts".

Coaches are more aware of factors like leadership, not just on the field but around the club, and with younger players in particular. Compare SP with Sam T in this respect! There's also the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" argument with Sam - not that it will carry much weight with certain posters.

morley pie eater wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:58 am

Wigan_forever1985 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:03 pm

morley pie eater wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:01 pm
Just one question: would you swap Sam for McShane?

Surprisingly maybe if you offered me a like for like swap - no I probably wouldn’t

I like mcshane and I think he is a better hooker than Powell but I don’t think he would be as effective at Wigan - cas play a more open game plan to us which suits mcshane

I would love to see a zippy hooker interchanged with Powell - I’m a big fan of the two hooker setup - if you have momentum your zippy hooker can make hay if you are controlling or trying to stop a teams momentum Sam would be great

Thanks for the honest and considered reply.

I asked myself the same question after looking at both their stats, and came to the same conclusion.

I also think about the differences between the likes of Kiss, Dermott, Hall, Riddell, McIlorum - but we had success with all of them. It's the intangible factors like the team's style, how the hooker blends with the other players: "A team is greater than the sum of its parts".

Coaches are more aware of factors like leadership, not just on the field but around the club, and with younger players in particular. Compare SP with Sam T in this respect! There's also the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" argument with Sam - not that it will carry much weight with certain posters.

No, there really, really isn't. Both yours and the previous post are just making up excuses for sticking with an average player. If Mo Lindsay had this attitude we'd have never seen the likes of Hanley, Offiah, Gill, Bell and many more at Wigan because we already had players who could do a job in their positions. The idea we wouldn't sign a better hooker because Powell with all his faults blends with other players is nuts. It's the coaches job to sort that out and if our coach couldn't make use of a better hooker we'd need a new coach as well as a new hooker.

Powell or Micky Mac? I know which I'd choose and I know who the opposition would least like to face.

However, Powell is playing very well (within his limits) this season and he's not going anywhere.

Id rather have Danny Walker than Sam Powell, and he's not even Warringtons best hooker

DaveO wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:05 pm

morley pie eater wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:58 am

Wigan_forever1985 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:03 pm

Surprisingly maybe if you offered me a like for like swap - no I probably wouldn’t

I like mcshane and I think he is a better hooker than Powell but I don’t think he would be as effective at Wigan - cas play a more open game plan to us which suits mcshane

I would love to see a zippy hooker interchanged with Powell - I’m a big fan of the two hooker setup - if you have momentum your zippy hooker can make hay if you are controlling or trying to stop a teams momentum Sam would be great

Thanks for the honest and considered reply.

I asked myself the same question after looking at both their stats, and came to the same conclusion.

I also think about the differences between the likes of Kiss, Dermott, Hall, Riddell, McIlorum - but we had success with all of them. It's the intangible factors like the team's style, how the hooker blends with the other players: "A team is greater than the sum of its parts".

Coaches are more aware of factors like leadership, not just on the field but around the club, and with younger players in particular. Compare SP with Sam T in this respect! There's also the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" argument with Sam - not that it will carry much weight with certain posters.

No, there really, really isn't. Both yours and the previous post are just making up excuses for sticking with an average player. If Mo Lindsay had this attitude we'd have never seen the likes of Hanley, Offiah, Gill, Bell and many more at Wigan because we already had players who could do a job in their positions. The idea we wouldn't sign a better hooker because Powell with all his faults blends with other players is nuts. It's the coaches job to sort that out and if our coach couldn't make use of a better hooker we'd need a new coach as well as a new hooker.

Exactly as expected - cut & paste previous posts.

Lindsay was in the past. Gone. History. They were different times. We won pretty much everything, largely because we "splashed the cash" and, for a long period, were the only full-time pro team in a semi-pro sport.

Great days, but they're gone. Happy memories, but they can't act as a guide to now, 2020.

Is the "culture" of a club, especially ours, important? What influences that culture?

Who were/are the influences on Smithies, Byrne, Partington Havard, Smith etc etc, who are doing so well for us? The coaching staff - sure. But surely the senior players too?

So Lockers, Powell, Leuluai have played a part behind the scenes in the great crop of young lads we have.

This is one example of what I was saying about coaches picking Powell - they see this, and many other qualities as well as his on-field performance.

Dave, we understand that you want us to be dominant, as in Uncle Mo's time, but it's not like that any more. And Sam is better than you think.

DaveO wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:05 pm

morley pie eater wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:58 am

Wigan_forever1985 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:03 pm

Surprisingly maybe if you offered me a like for like swap - no I probably wouldn’t

I like mcshane and I think he is a better hooker than Powell but I don’t think he would be as effective at Wigan - cas play a more open game plan to us which suits mcshane

I would love to see a zippy hooker interchanged with Powell - I’m a big fan of the two hooker setup - if you have momentum your zippy hooker can make hay if you are controlling or trying to stop a teams momentum Sam would be great

Thanks for the honest and considered reply.

I asked myself the same question after looking at both their stats, and came to the same conclusion.

I also think about the differences between the likes of Kiss, Dermott, Hall, Riddell, McIlorum - but we had success with all of them. It's the intangible factors like the team's style, how the hooker blends with the other players: "A team is greater than the sum of its parts".

Coaches are more aware of factors like leadership, not just on the field but around the club, and with younger players in particular. Compare SP with Sam T in this respect! There's also the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" argument with Sam - not that it will carry much weight with certain posters.

No, there really, really isn't. Both yours and the previous post are just making up excuses for sticking with an average player. If Mo Lindsay had this attitude we'd have never seen the likes of Hanley, Offiah, Gill, Bell and many more at Wigan because we already had players who could do a job in their positions. The idea we wouldn't sign a better hooker because Powell with all his faults blends with other players is nuts. It's the coaches job to sort that out and if our coach couldn't make use of a better hooker we'd need a new coach as well as a new hooker.

No salary cap to manage then was there?

Mike wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:59 pm

DaveO wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:05 pm

morley pie eater wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:58 am

Thanks for the honest and considered reply.

I asked myself the same question after looking at both their stats, and came to the same conclusion.

I also think about the differences between the likes of Kiss, Dermott, Hall, Riddell, McIlorum - but we had success with all of them. It's the intangible factors like the team's style, how the hooker blends with the other players: "A team is greater than the sum of its parts".

Coaches are more aware of factors like leadership, not just on the field but around the club, and with younger players in particular. Compare SP with Sam T in this respect! There's also the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" argument with Sam - not that it will carry much weight with certain posters.

No, there really, really isn't. Both yours and the previous post are just making up excuses for sticking with an average player. If Mo Lindsay had this attitude we'd have never seen the likes of Hanley, Offiah, Gill, Bell and many more at Wigan because we already had players who could do a job in their positions. The idea we wouldn't sign a better hooker because Powell with all his faults blends with other players is nuts. It's the coaches job to sort that out and if our coach couldn't make use of a better hooker we'd need a new coach as well as a new hooker.

No salary cap to manage then was there?

That doesn't mean we cannot get a better hooker now. And I'm not saying Powell is bad.

There are better hookers than Sam Powell in the league - how many of them are available im not sure. What i would say is he isnt the worst in the league so again it depends on who is available and who isnt. It also depends in a salary cap sport who makes up the other elements of your team.

If we look at our current pivots;

French, Hastings, Powell, Tommy, Lockers

Its not the worst line up Lockers is shot and no longer worthwhile but Bateman you could argue coming in nullifies that. Tommy is also shot, not as shot as lockers but this is his last effective season, id argue that Smith has softened that blow.

So it boils down to French and Hastings, if they both stay next year there is enough in those pivots to not "need" to replace Powell. If Hastings and/or French leave we will need a better hooker to compete.

Wigan_forever1985 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:03 am There are better hookers than Sam Powell in the league - how many of them are available im not sure. What i would say is he isnt the worst in the league so again it depends on who is available and who isnt. It also depends in a salary cap sport who makes up the other elements of your team.

If we look at our current pivots;

French, Hastings, Powell, Tommy, Lockers

Its not the worst line up Lockers is shot and no longer worthwhile but Bateman you could argue coming in nullifies that. Tommy is also shot, not as shot as lockers but this is his last effective season, id argue that Smith has softened that blow.

So it boils down to French and Hastings, if they both stay next year there is enough in those pivots to not "need" to replace Powell. If Hastings and/or French leave we will need a better hooker to compete.

Good, accurate summary of the situation that, I'd say W_f

Surely If Hastings and/or French leave we will need a better half? If that should happen, I don't see it's a case of, blame Powell. I'd settle for another half who'd play for us as well in his position as Powell has done in his this season so far.