WIGAN`S WORST SIGNING`S FIELDEN VAEILIKI DOC MURRY ?

[ellery 4 coach]

beating you at what cp, i have only stated facts that you and a small minority of so called fans continue to have very negative comments about the club from il to bn to sf and when 1 is doing alright you move on to the next then you move onto eddie and stevo the people who wrote to ofcom about library pictures lol by the way thats what i got a yellow card for saying sad ,at the begining of the season it was refs linesmen the tea lady so no matter whos coaching us next year the same cycle will occur to the moaners personally i hope bn will sign again so you and your merry band can keep your promise and not go to games next season and go and watch the girls game

[cpwigan]

What the heck why not given RHM was so silly with her petty insults. Any woman can understand physical team sports from a technical point of view. No woman can ever understand the raw contest between men playing a physical contact sport. They think they can but they cannot. They have never been in that situation and never will.

Just to disappoint RHM. I come from a family that played football and rugby to very high levels at an amateur level, sometimes professionally. Genetically I inherited my fathers genes when it came to raw competitiveness. My father was rated the toughest player in Wigan. I was rated similarly although times changed and it is nothing to be proud of nor something you can enjoy. Once upon a time you fought like hell on the field and came off it as friends respecting the contest. That went a long time ago even in the professional game to a small degree. I was also incredibly stubborn and knew it all. Nothing changes eh.

However when a woman thinks she can come and tell me how tough sport is and that I have no right to criticise Stuart Fielden I cannot help but laugh at the sheer stupidity of her statements. Let me just dispel your misunderstanding. No woman will ever know what it is like to compete on a purely man v man basis. The 'nakedness' of what is as much if not more a mental rather than a physical contest. Personally I loved the contest. I never feared another man on the sporting field. Some do. It does not stop them playing BTW. The psychology of a male physical contact sport cannot ever be understood by any woman. End of.

Now if you want to get back to the thread. Show some guts. Women have as much often more than men. Make a call. If the choice comes down to Mossop or Fielden who do you select? I know who I would pick. Do you?

Stuart Fielden is stealing a living at Wigan RLFC and his salary v return on the field of play hurts this club enmormously. Anything I type I would gladly say face to face. That is my view on the internet. Never type anything you would not say in person. Do you honestly think his teammates think he is wonderful? Do you think they are impressed when Karl Pryce keeps pulling up 'injured'? Shaun Edwards would have ripped into Fielden big time. All the greats would because the simple fact is if you are not doing it, not pulling your weight you are damaging their livelihood, their hopes and aspirations. Winners have no time for losers.

Professional sport is cruel and calous. 16 men can be proud of what they did v Leeds. One cannot. If the truth hurts so be it.

[cpwigan]

beating you at what cp, i have only stated facts that you and a small minority of so called fans continue to have very negative comments about the club from il to bn to sf and when 1 is doing alright you move on to the next then you move onto eddie and stevo the people who wrote to ofcom about library pictures lol by the way thats what i got a yellow card for saying sad ,at the begining of the season it was refs linesmen the tea lady so no matter whos coaching us next year the same cycle will occur to the moaners personally i hope bn will sign again so you and your merry band can keep your promise and not go to games next season and go and watch the girls game

If your facts were fact then you would have a reasonable argument but they never are. The irony that the whining about so called whining is ill based and perpetuated by certain posters seems to go over their heads.

Make some positive threads. If somebody makes some negative ones that is their choice. Personally I make both as I think that is far more sensible. Demented seals or incessant 100% negativity are both as bad as each other. Intelligence is being able to recognise the positive and the negative. Do you think Mick Hogan slaps himself on the back all the time?

[Red Hot Mama]

CPW I do not give out petty insults - you are obviously a clever man who can put his opinion forward very well. What I do object to is your obliteration of others who do not agree with you. As for your family history that bears no relevance to you playing rugby at todays level. My father was also a champion boxer and award winning footballer - this does not make me the same. I don't know what sort of reaction you wanted from me. I do not rise to the bait of the chauvanism. I stand by what I say. No matter what standard you played your games to I still think you are not man enough to know how hard todays game is. I cannot see any evidence to back up your theory that Fielden lets his team mates down. Has he not taken part in the last 5 wins. Was he alone directly responsible for the other losses, I think not. I have watched last nights game twice over and Fieldens defence was immense. He does not have the same impact running as Feka or agility of Tomkins but we need different styles of players to make the team work. I honestly believe you are living in the past. Wigan has a fantastic history that no other club can claim. However that does not give Wigan the divine right to win every trophy going now. The game has evolved from the Platts and the Edwards players. It is a much faster and athletic game now.

As for a woman having the nerve to quesion your authority on how tough the game is - you try being in labour for 26 hours and giving birth to a 12lb baby and then I may give you some respect.

Yes I would drop Mossop for Fielden. Mossop whilst playing well has still yet to prove himself and has plenty of time to do so. I don't need guts to say this as it is my opinion. Others are free to disagree.

You know that my son plays, his position is prop forward and I would not be happy with him playing first team until he is at least 21 when his body is ready to take the knocks that will come. Please do not come on here telling me that I don't understand the hardships of the game as I witness it every time I watch him play (that is if I can bear to watch).

Finally I do not object to your opinion of Fielden as I say everyone is entitled to that but I do object to your insulting and disrespectful manner in which you do so.

[gpartin]

The spelling mistake that irks me is TomPkins. Why cannot people not spell Tomkins

Double negatives irritate me...

Oh no it doesn't not.

[cpwigan]

RHM, It is not chauvanism it is a plain hard fact that no woman can understand what is like when men play a physical contact sport JUST AS no man can ever understand what a woman goes through giving birth. I will never pass judgement on what women say about giving birth because from the sound of it, it is the best thing about being male and not female. You are reinforcing my view. It is not politically correct not that PC has much merit. It is the plain truth. I would add that men who have never played competitive physical contact sport are at a similar disadvantage to women.

Why would you put an age limit on your son being in the first team? Every player is different. Did Keiron Cunningham or James Graham need to wait until they were 21? Some players can play NRL / SL when they are 16/17. Personally, I feel sorry for the 20/30 somethings when Jamal Idris runs at them. Look at Polynesian boys/young men and how quickly they mature.

The sport is dynamic but a quality player in one era would be a quality player in another. Is the game any more athletic? The players are certainly more muscular than some but not all of past player. I will say this NO modern day prop will be fitter nor stronger than Andy Platt but more important and my whole mentally tough because this sport like most sports is 'played in your head' Mental toughness is everything. I can go out to a gym and find 17 gym freaks that are stronger, possibly more athletic than RL players but they could not play a physical contact sport like RL.

Unfortunately I saw what I saw re Stuart Fielden. You see far more live yes the TV shows you a frame at any moment in time accurately but the scope a human has to take in more than following the ball is the big difference.

I think 99% of people will admit Stuart Fielden is not the player he once was. Far from it. His Chairman said so last season at the fans forum, his once international coaches say so, media experts say so and so do most fans.

For me there are two things re Stuart Fielden. He did not play RL until late in his teens and that is crucial not only for him but for RL in this country. Fielden like many RL players in this country does not have a natural instinct for the sport. Players that played the game since they were knee high have a huge advantage. That is why the Aussies are so good. It is a small difference but it makes a huge difference.

Nothing Stuart Fielden does comes naturally. It is a process. It is robotic. He cannot always time a run/find a gap. He does not even know how to run at a defence to maximise him physique. Now that seems harsh but it is the truth. Worse because he does not truly understand what he is trying to do he puts up illegal defence mechanisms like thrusting his knee at would be tacklers or simply going into contact and pulling away and making what OPTA laughingly call a bust as he bounces backwards.

You have a player who lacks the natural instinct who is now mentally shot. He has lost his 'mojo'. Whatsmore RL players know it and it adds to their confidence. Burgess sickened him last week v Bradford and he was no better v Leeds. If he was playing as an amateur he would have retired because if he is honest with himself I don't think he even enjoys how he plays now or the player he has become. His confidence, self belief is shot and because he has so little natural flair for RL he has nothing to fall back on. You know inside when you are gone as a player. You can try to kid yourself, you can tell others you are not but inside you know and that is what counts especially when playing the brutal contact team sport in the world of sport.

We have a player 'shot' but on a huge contract. Whether some fans want to kid themselves like Stuart Fielden kids himself, he is damaging the chances of this club and his team whilst he unbfairly but through no fault of his own gets paid for something that he can no longer deliver. Brian Noble, Maurice Lindsay/Dave Whelan carry the can but that does not solve the problem that we have for at least another year the world's highest paid prop not being able to even justify a place in the first team. The salary cap is cruel. It makes you pay tenfold for such mistakes. You cannot make such big mistakes. In the past you would have simply gone out and signed somebody to do what Stuart Fielden cannot do any longer. No such luck in a salary cap driven sport.

Professional sport is a cold harsh world.

[thegimble]

CPW re: Chauvanism

I take it that youve played in SL to make that type of judgement regarding a woman not being able to understand whats it like for a man to play a physical contact sport. Sorry to tell you but woman can play a physical sport a man cant give birth. So that throws out your opinion.

I havent posted on here for a long while due to people like you that cant take another persons point of view. its childish at best. You say that eveyone has an opinion. But from what i see no one person can have a different opinion to yours.

You attempt to post against anything that disagrees with your opinion. It takes a rel man sometimes to bite the bullet and say nothing and not attempt to ridiclule others with your apparent intelligence.

[cpwigan]

CPW re: Chauvanism

I take it that youve played in SL to make that type of judgement regarding a woman not being able to understand whats it like for a man to play a physical contact sport. Sorry to tell you but woman can play a physical sport a man cant give birth. So that throws out your opinion.

A woman cannot understand or experience what it is like for men to play v men in a physical contact sport because they are not male. It really is that simple. Anybody who has played league, union, football at any level can. You do not need to play SL, nor do you have to play RL. No male can understand what a woman goes through giving birth. It's just the way it is.

N.B There is a fantastic thread on Sam Tomkins. Funny how so called posters like Ellery prefer to whine about other posters rather than creat/post those threads. The only person in life that can make somebody feel inferior is YOU. Nobody else can make you feel inferior. However, it is far easier for people to blame others.

[thegimble]

CPW re: Chauvanism

I take it that youve played in SL to make that type of judgement regarding a woman not being able to understand whats it like for a man to play a physical contact sport. Sorry to tell you but woman can play a physical sport a man cant give birth. So that throws out your opinion.

A woman cannot understand or experience what it is like for men to play v men in a physical contact sport because they are not male. It really is that simple. Anybody who has played league, union, football at any level can. You do not need to play SL, nor do you have to play RL. No male can understand what a woman goes through giving birth. It's just the way it is.

N.B There is a fantastic thread on Sam Tomkins. Funny how so called posters like Ellery prefer to whine about other posters rather than creat/post those threads. The only person in life that can make somebody feel inferior is YOU. Nobody else can make you feel inferior. However, it is far easier for people to blame others.

Cant believe how full much you really think of yourself i never said anything about inferiority. I dont blame anyone for anything just i cant be bothered with the forum for the last 6 months due to lack of respect sometimes shown to others with different opinions.

[cpwigan]

CPW re: Chauvanism

I take it that youve played in SL to make that type of judgement regarding a woman not being able to understand whats it like for a man to play a physical contact sport. Sorry to tell you but woman can play a physical sport a man cant give birth. So that throws out your opinion.

A woman cannot understand or experience what it is like for men to play v men in a physical contact sport because they are not male. It really is that simple. Anybody who has played league, union, football at any level can. You do not need to play SL, nor do you have to play RL. No male can understand what a woman goes through giving birth. It's just the way it is.

N.B There is a fantastic thread on Sam Tomkins. Funny how so called posters like Ellery prefer to whine about other posters rather than creat/post those threads. The only person in life that can make somebody feel inferior is YOU. Nobody else can make you feel inferior. However, it is far easier for people to blame others.

Cant believe how full much you really think of yourself i never said anything about inferiority. I dont blame anyone for anything just i cant be bothered with the forum for the last 6 months due to lack of respect sometimes shown to others with different opinions.

You have an axe to grind and as a bitter and twisted poster chose this thread when you could have posted in umpteen threads. I just lol when posters like you and Ellery complain about not being able to offer your opinions yet want to restrict others. Do we not have right of reply preferably constructively. If somebody disagrees with somebody in a reasoned matter then so be it. That is life. If it makes you feel so bad then you have far greater problems than internet forums.

Personally, I could not give a hoot what others think of me. I am happy with who I am and that is all anybody ever should be.