Sam v Shaun

[jobo]

Now lets not get carried away Pedro

I think FB has changed as a position. It was changing from the days of Mumby/Burke and Fairbairn to the days of Rads and Wellens. Defensively and catching kicks I would argue those qualities are now more important at Wing than FB. If I had a small skillful outside back I would be looking at him more as a FB than win these days.

Rads was a true competitor but he will have played with umpteen juniors who never even made it to the Pro level with far more natural talent than Rads ever had. However, in terms of attitude and effort, Rads was a champion.

Sam T is a better modern era FB than Rads would have been

Interestingly, Rads pick Edwards as the best 6 he has played with.

CP. It's a bit unfair to say Rads lacked natural talent. He was a champion player and was the best in the British game for most of his career, including at schoolboy level. I take your point when comparing him to Sam though. Sam, in a way is an unnatural talent, much in the same way Ellery Hanley was and as such is incomparable. Reckon a true comparison for Rads would be Paul Wellens and Rads was far better than him.

[josie andrews]

Now lets not get carried away Pedro

I think FB has changed as a position. It was changing from the days of Mumby/Burke and Fairbairn to the days of Rads and Wellens. Defensively and catching kicks I would argue those qualities are now more important at Wing than FB. If I had a small skillful outside back I would be looking at him more as a FB than win these days.

Rads was a true competitor but he will have played with umpteen juniors who never even made it to the Pro level with far more natural talent than Rads ever had. However, in terms of attitude and effort, Rads was a champion.

Sam T is a better modern era FB than Rads would have been

Interestingly, Rads pick Edwards as the best 6 he has played with.

CP. It's a bit unfair to say Rads lacked natural talent. He was a champion player and was the best in the British game for most of his career, including at schoolboy level. I take your point when comparing him to Sam though. Sam, in a way is an unnatural talent, much in the same way Ellery Hanley was and as such is incomparable. Reckon a true comparison for Rads would be Paul Wellens and Rads was far better than him.

Jobo, Rads will tell you that himself, that's why he worked so hard

[cpwigan]

Jobo you are missing my point.

Everything Rads achieved he did so through sheer effort and endeavour. Interestingly, Craig Bellamy in an interview talked about finding players with good personal qualities, good background. As a man, as a person Rads is as good as they come, he may have his equals but they will be few and far between. His qualities as a man, as a person make him perfect for his job as a player management. A coach he could never be.

The players Rads was a champion but he was not a fantastic natural talent. Trust me he was not a fabulous junior. He was not high on Wigan's wanted list. Everything Rads achieved was sheer effort and determination. He made himself as good as he could be but he had special qualities as a man, qualities that get you through the pain barrier to play in CC finals at Murrayfield for example.

Rads will have played with juniors who are now nevr has been that had more talent, more natural ability than Rads could have ever dreamed of. Fans should read Rads book but also Danny Buderus book, particularly the first chapter. Rads achieved and won a lifetime of trophies / memories but would he have played FB in this era or centre? I think he might have been better suited to centre or wing today than FB.

Phil Blake, Amos Roberts are blessed with far more natural talent than Rads but he has double, triple the achievement they have. Would they be better FBs today IMO, yes. In THIS ERA, Sam is a better FB in THIS ERA.

PS - Anybody still think Sam is not a FB or cannot handle the nitty gritty of the position. Sam T was a nobody as a junior. A bit of genetic good luck BUT most important sheer hard graft and determination have made him what he is. Mick Hogan once told me Sam T trains as hard as J.Wilkinson did in his prime. The extras pay off, the desire pays off. Winners are mentally the same. Talent wise they may be very different.