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The biggest vacuum Leeds have is the one between Ryan Bailey's ears.

DaveO wrote:

First Try Tickle wrote:There are some really negative posts on this thread. I look at the players leaving and the ones coming in and I'm quite optimistic.

I've said before that tommy received quite a few negative posts pre the McGuire era, I think has started better and he wasn't allowed to dis thing next to finch.

Finch had a poor start and a poor finish, for a guy who only did 2 seasons, he houldn't be hard to replace . Read RLFANS and Green gets some very good reports, playing for a poor team with poor runners.

Now I'm going to struggle to say anything negative about George, the perfect centre and a massive loss, but he's been struggling for a couple of seasons and it gives Thornley the perfect chance to work on his game with a very experienced winger.

And as for Fielden then being replaced by the highly sought Taylor then this can also only be a good thing.

So at the moment I' very optimistic and really looking forward to next year.

Well the cherry n white specs are certainly on here.

Including the now almost bog standard justification that Finch was actually totally crap and Tommy wasn't that good when he started so the fact he is now makes no odds. In case you forgot Richard's was also crap for several seasons. Apparently.

Who else has left? George. Well he can be replaced by a rookie because the ex-crap Richards will make that OK.

As to the "much sought after" Taylor. Really? I am happy to accept the lad has potential but in case you missed it I have a problem where our new signings or replacements from within are justified on the back of slagging off players who have done well for this club.

They most definitely are DaveO

I certainly remember a distinctly average Tommy playing scrum half for us. Whilst you (and anyone else) can argue those performances where under the auspices of certain coaches (primarily Noble) during that time. It took the great Wayne Bennett, coaching New Zealand to play Tommy at hooker - not scrum half, that saw him discover a lease of life unseen prior to that.

I never doubt Tommy's unflinching effort and determination, almost to the point you would think he would run through brick walls and make every tackle a bone cruncher, but, as for his ability to be a midfield general, pulling the side around and dictating play he was distinctly lacking. This is highlighted by the fact that the New Zealand test side played a make-shift scrum half (Nathan Fien) in that famous win back in 2008 a head of Leualui.

Whenever Tommy then moved from half back to hooker, his almost "blinkered" style of play meant his running from the dummy half gave Wigan a dimension we hadn't seen before (especially after having the likes of Riddell in the side).

I do agree we will lack that certain something now that Tommy has gone, but a creative, play making scrum half with even a half decent kicking game it will not be.

Finch is one oversees that I have been disappointed with. My own opinions are poor of him. He started badly, dominated in a side that was very dominant, then finished poorly. Hardly someone that should see fans wailing like children over the loss of. Lets face facts, he wanted to return to his former club to help in the coaching of the junior players and also renew old friendship, plus gain a premiership title that he felt the NRL couldn't take off him.

Carmont IS a loss. I AM concerned that Thornley is seen as his replacement as I think he doesn't have the necessary ability. Time will tell on that one, maybe we will see Gelling get more of a run in that position next season?

As for Taylor being "much sought after". I am aware his agent "touted" him around a few clubs earlier in the season. Clubs are interested, but not interested enough to fork hard currency for him in these days of poor finances (apart from Hull who Hull KR wont deal with). I for one think it strange Wigan got Fielden fit after 2 injury hit years then didn't give him a chance to earn a place in the side. Obviously money must have been a factor in his eventual release as it will be in signing Taylor (if it happens)

and by the way DaveO:

PREMIERS Melbourne Storm have produced a recruitment masterstroke by luring playmaker Brett Finch back to the club for next to nothing

Finch's appeal is twofold. Along with providing the reigning premiers with tremendous depth in key positions, the return of the ex-NSW halfback underlines the tremendous culture at the reigning premiers.

Finch also wants the opportunity to play under coach Craig Bellamy again, with the champion pivot considering pursuing a coaching career when he retires.

If Finch had remained in England, he probably could have pocketed three times as much as he will upon his NRL return next season.

But Finch simply loves the culture the Storm's senior trio of Cameron Smith, Billy Slater and Cooper Cronk have created in Melbourne and wants back in with his old mates.

The goal is to win another premiership, only this time the NRL won't be able to take this one away for cap rorts.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/nrl/b ... 6489747395

This victory was down to a meticulous game plan constructed by Kearney and Bennett, and followed brilliantly by a Kiwi team for whom Nathan Fien showed remarkable composure for a makeshift scrum-half, combining with the more naturally gifted Marshall to bring the best out of some under-rated forwards

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/no ... -world-cup

butt monkey - this comment is not aimed at you it is simply because you were one to use the word last.
The word is Hooker.
To my mind there is no position in todays game for a Hooker. Does he 'hook' of course not. There are times when he doesn't scrum down.
I wouldn't mind this position being called, simply, Number 9.

Ron Doran wrote:butt monkey - this comment is not aimed at you it is simply because you were one to use the word last.
The word is Hooker.
To my mind there is no position in todays game for a Hooker. Does he 'hook' of course not. There are times when he doesn't scrum down.
I wouldn't mind this position being called, simply, Number 9.

Fair Call!!

I would say the most successful hookers (or No. 9's) in the British competition are those who are simply quick out of dummy half, with a good defence. Those who can actually pass a ball really well win Man of Steel etc

Some of the higher paid players have left and the replacements can't be on the same kind of money surely. Fielden was brought it on a big contract, Finch can't have been bargain bucket money and Tommy must have had a good wage. The names coming in can't demand the same level of salary so there has to be money available without breaching the salary cap

[quote="cpwigan

Transfer activity has ended other than Taylor. There is not enough room in the cap.[/quote]

How do you know that there isn't enough under the cap?

Five probably highly paid players have left. Do you honestly think all that cash has gone on 2 or 3 players for next season?

Get a grip!!

I was led to believe by the comments from SW in this weeks Observer,there was some possible money available if required.

HGWarrior wrote:[quote="cpwigan

Transfer activity has ended other than Taylor. There is not enough room in the cap.

How do you know that there isn't enough under the cap?

Five probably highly paid players have left. Do you honestly think all that cash has gone on 2 or 3 players for next season?

Get a grip!![/quote]

We go through this all the time and you can't make any assumption about how money will be allocated just because it looks like a wad of cash is freed up.

Most of the players contracts are escalators - such that their salaries are backloaded on their contract. Just because XYZ players have left it doesn't mean that their salaries become free and into the pot. Most of the cap has already been committed. So it's not going on 2-3 players, but spread across increasing existing players mopney.

weststand-rich wrote:Most of the players contracts are escalators - such that their salaries are backloaded on their contract. Just because XYZ players have left it doesn't mean that their salaries become free and into the pot. Most of the cap has already been committed. So it's not going on 2-3 players, but spread across increasing existing players mopney.

I think the point being made is all those who have left will have taken up a fair chunk of the salary cap. So if Lima was on say £100K the club could hand out five £20K pay rises and still have Tommy, George's and Finch's salary to play with.

Also given who is left how many of them would warrant the salary of a big name star player? The players we have recruited don't and I'd already expect the likes of Richard's, Lockers and Hansen to be very well paid so they wouldn't need an increment of £20K or more. So who is all the money going on?

We have not had so much quality and experience leave in one go for a long time and I am at a bit of a loss to see where all the money has gone.