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I personally think Sam is happy with his career at Wigan and in England at the moment he is in the spotlight and is mentioned as an ambassador for our sport in every breath someone mentions him, and apart from the money I personally think he will lose more than he will gain moving to Australia at this moment. I think he will stay until the end of the 2014 season.

EXODUS! ! mossop and err what's his name the only confirmations I am aware of. :exc:

Whelley Warrior wrote:

DaveO wrote:

Whelley Warrior wrote: Unless our game can compete financially with Rugby Union and the NRL, supporters will have to face up to the problem of players looking elsewhere. All our game can do now is keep finding and producing replacements and hope that they show more interest in staying loyal to our game and clubs instead of wanting more money elsewhere.

Over the year's our club has never done too bad in finding players to replace players if and when they leave and will continue do so in the future, especially with having one of the best academies in the game.

So just to be clear then, you are of the opinion it doesn't matter how many players we lose because we can replace them with local talent?

And there is no point at which a player drain would concern you?

And pray what is your answer to the problem and for the record, not just talent from within the club which by the way is not all local, but also quality signings from elsewhere.

Whether I have an answer or not is neither here nor there.

I wanted to know if there was at any time a player drain would concern you.

I'll take your answer above as a "no" because you think it can be fixed by developing our own talent and making quality signings.

I presume you think when we lose a player like Sam there is another waiting in the wings or we can go and buy a ready made replacement. Just like that.

East Stand Faithful wrote:

Whelley Warrior wrote:

DaveO wrote: So just to be clear then, you are of the opinion it doesn't matter how many players we lose because we can replace them with local talent?

And there is no point at which a player drain would concern you?



And pray what is your answer to the problem and for the record, not just talent from within the club which by the way is not all local, but also quality signings from elsewhere.

That is a fair question.

My view is that there is no short term answer. RL is buggered at the moment. The RFL needs to have a very good plan to turn the sport round from being a feeder to union and the NRL. You could bury your head in the sand and view this as mission impossible. Personally, I believe with astute management we could sort this. I believe RL is far more marketable to the British public than currently envisaged but the task is beyond the current administration who are incompetent.

The only head in the sand around here is WW's. The idea the club can replace losing quality players by producing our own and making quality signings totally fails to recognise the problem.

DaveO wrote:

East Stand Faithful wrote:

Whelley Warrior wrote: That is a fair question.

My view is that there is no short term answer. RL is buggered at the moment. The RFL needs to have a very good plan to turn the sport round from being a feeder to union and the NRL. You could bury your head in the sand and view this as mission impossible. Personally, I believe with astute management we could sort this. I believe RL is far more marketable to the British public than currently envisaged but the task is beyond the current administration who are incompetent.

The only head in the sand around here is WW's. The idea the club can replace losing quality players by producing our own and making quality signings totally fails to recognise the problem.

Dave O my comment regarding burying your head in the sand wasnt aimed at you, it wasnt aimed at anyone it was just a statement.

For what its worth I agree with you and I think the problem lies with the RFL and the clubs to market the game properly to increase income so that we can compete with the NRL and Union. Do I think it will happen - not a chance in hell. We are a minority sport and the game is run by amateurs.

I believe Wigan have been astute in trying to develop players from South Wales and Cumbria. I honestly believe that great players from just Wigan are never in the abundance some believe.

You look at Liam Farrell Academy Age Group, bar Liam IIRC everybody else fell by the wayside. Liam even turned down a much bigger RU offer at 16 to turn pro with Wigan! League Rep Games are watched by umpteen Union scouts. Only a small number from Liam's age group are still playing pro RL, Ben Davies was the second best player in that age group. Shaun Ainscough the 3rd best perhaps. Stuart Howarth, the 4th best?!!

Look at Josh Charnley's age group, a very successful age group IMO but more fell by the wayside than have made it and there were OUTSTANDING juniors, England internationals who never became future Wigan players. Ian Thornley, Jack Hughes and Logan Tomkins were the same age group. Crosby and Spencer were IIRC never heralded signings.

Look at Greg Burke's Age Group, Greg and Matty Russell are the sole survivors IIRC.

Liam Farrell's brother is the sole survivor from his age range. A fantastic junior prospect Chris Taylor is fighting and seemingly winning the battle to save his career.

The success rate is never silly and those that do are a rare breed. It never took rocket science to see that Greg Burke had the ability BUT Liam Thompson had as much ability and is now plying his pro career at Oldham IIRC after an injury plagued post 16 playing career.

Lest people forget Wigan did not want Sam Tomkins, they wanted Eastmond, missed out and Sam spent 12 months as kicking tee boy wiping the backsides of the Coyle brothers.

Player development is hit and miss and sometimes very lucky.

East Stand Faithful wrote: Dave O my comment regarding burying your head in the sand wasnt aimed at you,.....

I didn't think it was.

For what its worth I agree with you and I think the problem lies with the RFL and the clubs to market the game properly to increase income so that we can compete with the NRL and Union. Do I think it will happen - not a chance in hell. We are a minority sport and the game is run by amateurs.

I agree. It's been debated in the general RL thread and now the dust has settled over the restructuring ideas lots of people including people in the game such as Tony Smith can see them for what they are. Which is basically not the answer but window dressing.

The sport does this fairly regularly. The move to a GF system was supposed to improve the quality of the competition via the intensity of the playoffs.

I said at the time a handful of games at the end of the season would not have that effect and so its proved. It's the same teams who have won things most of the time.

We face another grand idea that doesn't address the issues and so it goes on. Emperor's new clothes or what?

cpwigan wrote:I believe Wigan have been astute in trying to develop players from South Wales and Cumbria. I honestly believe that great players from just Wigan are never in the abundance some believe.

You look at Liam Farrell Academy Age Group, bar Liam IIRC everybody else fell by the wayside. Liam even turned down a much bigger RU offer at 16 to turn pro with Wigan! League Rep Games are watched by umpteen Union scouts. Only a small number from Liam's age group are still playing pro RL, Ben Davies was the second best player in that age group. Shaun Ainscough the 3rd best perhaps. Stuart Howarth, the 4th best?!!

Look at Josh Charnley's age group, a very successful age group IMO but more fell by the wayside than have made it and there were OUTSTANDING juniors, England internationals who never became future Wigan players. Ian Thornley, Jack Hughes and Logan Tomkins were the same age group. Crosby and Spencer were IIRC never heralded signings.

Look at Greg Burke's Age Group, Greg and Matty Russell are the sole survivors IIRC.

Liam Farrell's brother is the sole survivor from his age range. A fantastic junior prospect Chris Taylor is fighting and seemingly winning the battle to save his career.

The success rate is never silly and those that do are a rare breed. It never took rocket science to see that Greg Burke had the ability BUT Liam Thompson had as much ability and is now plying his pro career at Oldham IIRC after an injury plagued post 16 playing career.

Lest people forget Wigan did not want Sam Tomkins, they wanted Eastmond, missed out and Sam spent 12 months as kicking tee boy wiping the backsides of the Coyle brothers.

Player development is hit and miss and sometimes very lucky.

Charnley is the age group above Hughes, Thornley and Tomkins.

Crosby and Sam powell were signed during their second seasons at U18s level from Hindley and Pats respectively.

nathan_rugby wrote:

cpwigan wrote:I believe Wigan have been astute in trying to develop players from South Wales and Cumbria. I honestly believe that great players from just Wigan are never in the abundance some believe.

You look at Liam Farrell Academy Age Group, bar Liam IIRC everybody else fell by the wayside. Liam even turned down a much bigger RU offer at 16 to turn pro with Wigan! League Rep Games are watched by umpteen Union scouts. Only a small number from Liam's age group are still playing pro RL, Ben Davies was the second best player in that age group. Shaun Ainscough the 3rd best perhaps. Stuart Howarth, the 4th best?!!

Look at Josh Charnley's age group, a very successful age group IMO but more fell by the wayside than have made it and there were OUTSTANDING juniors, England internationals who never became future Wigan players. Ian Thornley, Jack Hughes and Logan Tomkins were the same age group. Crosby and Spencer were IIRC never heralded signings.

Look at Greg Burke's Age Group, Greg and Matty Russell are the sole survivors IIRC.

Liam Farrell's brother is the sole survivor from his age range. A fantastic junior prospect Chris Taylor is fighting and seemingly winning the battle to save his career.

The success rate is never silly and those that do are a rare breed. It never took rocket science to see that Greg Burke had the ability BUT Liam Thompson had as much ability and is now plying his pro career at Oldham IIRC after an injury plagued post 16 playing career.

Lest people forget Wigan did not want Sam Tomkins, they wanted Eastmond, missed out and Sam spent 12 months as kicking tee boy wiping the backsides of the Coyle brothers.

Player development is hit and miss and sometimes very lucky.

Charnley is the age group above Hughes, Thornley and Tomkins.

Crosby and Sam powell were signed during their second seasons at U18s level from Hindley and Pats respectively.

Are you sure Nathan? IIRC Josh and Ryan King were the wingers in that age group. Sam P was the ame age and as you say signed late. IIRC he had a stint at Hindley before Pats. Leythers try to claim Crosby as on of theirs bu IIRC he was a Hindley player as you say.

cpwigan wrote:

nathan_rugby wrote:

cpwigan wrote:I believe Wigan have been astute in trying to develop players from South Wales and Cumbria. I honestly believe that great players from just Wigan are never in the abundance some believe.

You look at Liam Farrell Academy Age Group, bar Liam IIRC everybody else fell by the wayside. Liam even turned down a much bigger RU offer at 16 to turn pro with Wigan! League Rep Games are watched by umpteen Union scouts. Only a small number from Liam's age group are still playing pro RL, Ben Davies was the second best player in that age group. Shaun Ainscough the 3rd best perhaps. Stuart Howarth, the 4th best?!!

Look at Josh Charnley's age group, a very successful age group IMO but more fell by the wayside than have made it and there were OUTSTANDING juniors, England internationals who never became future Wigan players. Ian Thornley, Jack Hughes and Logan Tomkins were the same age group. Crosby and Spencer were IIRC never heralded signings.

Look at Greg Burke's Age Group, Greg and Matty Russell are the sole survivors IIRC.

Liam Farrell's brother is the sole survivor from his age range. A fantastic junior prospect Chris Taylor is fighting and seemingly winning the battle to save his career.

The success rate is never silly and those that do are a rare breed. It never took rocket science to see that Greg Burke had the ability BUT Liam Thompson had as much ability and is now plying his pro career at Oldham IIRC after an injury plagued post 16 playing career.

Lest people forget Wigan did not want Sam Tomkins, they wanted Eastmond, missed out and Sam spent 12 months as kicking tee boy wiping the backsides of the Coyle brothers.

Player development is hit and miss and sometimes very lucky.

Charnley is the age group above Hughes, Thornley and Tomkins.

Crosby and Sam powell were signed during their second seasons at U18s level from Hindley and Pats respectively.

Are you sure Nathan? IIRC Josh and Ryan King were the wingers in that age group. Sam P was the ame age and as you say signed late. IIRC he had a stint at Hindley before Pats. Leythers try to claim Crosby as on of theirs bu IIRC he was a Hindley player as you say.

They played in the same academy team, however Charnley is 22 in June which places him in the age above king, hughes, powell, tomkins etc.

Crosby definitley played for Hindley, I played against him for two seasons in the U18s NWC.

Regarding Powell, I think he had his last season at Hindley U16S and then moved to Pats for U18S rugby.