Joe Burgess on the MEN

[keptinthedarkfans]

Said it before and will say it again, we lose more players because we have had and will continually have better players that can cut it in the NRL compared to Leeds, Wire and Stains.

That doesn't make it acceptable but it makes it more difficult to keep hold of players that WANT to try their luck in the NRL.

Maybe Ryan Hall etc didn't actually want to leave England just like Mickey Mac didn't.

Got to remember it is not just the club that allows players to go the player has to actually want to go.

Sorry TBW have to disagree. Can't believe a lad of JB age who lets face it has proved nothing yet.And says he loves it at Wigan and wants to win trophy's with them. As instigated going to Aus.

[TrueBlueWarrior]

Said it before and will say it again, we lose more players because we have had and will continually have better players that can cut it in the NRL compared to Leeds, Wire and Stains.

That doesn't make it acceptable but it makes it more difficult to keep hold of players that WANT to try their luck in the NRL.

Maybe Ryan Hall etc didn't actually want to leave England just like Mickey Mac didn't.

Got to remember it is not just the club that allows players to go the player has to actually want to go.

Sorry TBW have to disagree. Can't believe a lad of JB age who lets face it has proved nothing yet.And says he loves it at Wigan and wants to win trophy's with them. As instigated going to Aus.

I have never said that he has instigated a move himself, only that he is that good that the NRL are bound to be interested in him and eventually it will be up to him whether he is interested in going or not!! I agree JB has a lot to prove first and should want to stay at Wigan for a few years yet, like Sam for example!!

[Exiled Wiganer]

I always find these sorts of debate to be slightly unsatisfactory as everyone has to imply/infer so many current unknowns that you end up with saying If a (made up) plus (made up) plus c (rumour) then d (happy/unhappy)
Seems to me that we don't know what Budgie is being paid, but it is reasonable to assume it is peanuts compared to what we will pay him now he is a superstar. We don't know what the Roosters have offered, though we know they have vastly greater resources than us. We don't know what Budgie himself wants to do. On that basis, we can get as worked up about IL and the club or not, depending on what combination of guesses we feed in.
There is another imponderable. The club may look at the talent available to it and form a (well informed) view as to who to keep and who they would not pay a fortune to keep. They may value, say, Hampshire more highly than Budgie - which I think I would as well - and so have to make a rational hobson's choice. In Budgie's case, he is "only" a winger, and so they may conclude that, with Josh and Manfredi we aren't as massively exposed as if, say, we let our best prop go and kept paying one of the other main props while he sits in the stand. Which would be madness, of course.

[markill]

It is happening elsewhere. It has happened to other clubs before too.

You could argue Joe Burgess situation isn't much different to the Jordan Baldwinson one - he had started to make a mark on the first team when he got poached to go to NZ warriors. It just didn't work out.

Other young players have gone recently - Tonks, Naughton (former Bradford academy fullback) two that spring immediately to mind - that were young and came through other clubs but still managed to attract interest in NRL. We just don't care as much because they aren't Wigan players. Maybe throw Eden and Cooper in to the mix as similar sort of thing.

Other clubs have lost established players to NRL too, not just us. Leeds lost Morley, Ellis, Mathers. the first two were world class on the scale of Sam T.

Plus, you know, all the Dewsbury Burgess'.

Josh Hodgson is a comparable example to Lee Mossop too as an established, even leading first team player who has gone to the NRL from another super league club - maybe not a top club, but then why should they have any less a right to hold on to top players than we do?

Whilst I'm not going to be tearing up my season ticket or ending my support for the club, it isn't however unreasonable to ask some pertinent questions. We do seem to be losing more established players and see more rumours attached to our young players than other top clubs, be it to other Super League sides or to the NRL. Its only natural to wonder why, but at the same time you can often understand the reasons when you try to think like the player or business man might be doing - not that as fans we should care about that all the time though, our feelings still bloody matter!

[DaveO]

I always find these sorts of debate to be slightly unsatisfactory as everyone has to imply/infer so many current unknowns that you end up with saying If a (made up) plus (made up) plus c (rumour) then d (happy/unhappy)
Seems to me that we don't know what Budgie is being paid, but it is reasonable to assume it is peanuts compared to what we will pay him now he is a superstar. We don't know what the Roosters have offered, though we know they have vastly greater resources than us. We don't know what Budgie himself wants to do. On that basis, we can get as worked up about IL and the club or not, depending on what combination of guesses we feed in.

What players want to do is influenced by many things. I'd expect one to be an offer of money on the table.

If (as Leeds do) a player can see how much he will earn as he progresses and is given that money then I am sure this will lead to a more settled squad with players not so easily swayed to go elsewhere. If you know what you are going to earn it really can be better the devil you know and the temptation to leave even if for more money can be reduced.

On the other hand of you are on peanuts and another club comes in with a large offer before your own has woken up to the fact you deserve a pay increase, then the idea of leaving can take hold regardless of later offers by your own club.

You are implying everything is largely out of IL's hands and I think this is incorrect. If the club is not proactive in realising it needs to act with respect to players like Burgess it can be too late once the horse has bolted whereas if it had of acted promptly it might have been all OK.

As to what the Roosters have offered there is a minimum wage in the NRL of $77,500 AUD which is just over £42K at today's exchange rate so it is at least that.

There is another imponderable. The club may look at the talent available to it and form a (well informed) view as to who to keep and who they would not pay a fortune to keep. They may value, say, Hampshire more highly than Budgie - which I think I would as well - and so have to make a rational hobson's choice. In Budgie's case, he is "only" a winger, and so they may conclude that, with Josh and Manfredi we aren't as massively exposed as if, say, we let our best prop go and kept paying one of the other main props while he sits in the stand. Which would be madness, of course.

I see you are getting the excuse for letting him go in early by speculating he is of less value than another player.

Now you are the one implying, inferring and making stuff up and I have to say I think what you say above is absolute nonsense because there is no logic in what you say. That is, why on earth would the club have to release Burgess to keep Hampshire?

Answer: they don't! There is no Hobsons choice.

[KOOCH]

All this because of a story in the local rag about a Aussie club being interested in him which is hardly surprising as it happens at the end of every season.

What surprises me is that it is only one club from the NRL and Union.

And where has Burgess himself has said that he is leaving?[/quote]

You know this is more than a story in a local rag.

And where did Sam Tomkins himself say he is leaving. In fact he denied it.
And please don't come back with the doom and gloom brigade garbage. I am as posertive as anyone.I pay for 5 season tickets every year so think i am intitled to have a bit of a rant. Just think ploughing all the money we are into our youth system only to see it as a production line for NRL is worrying.

Just one of the reasons I have this person on my ignore button not worth wasting my time on him. Always knows better than anyone else.

[KOOCH]

I have just sent IL an email that probably will end up in a bin. I have expressed my utter disgust that we are possibly losing JB. It may be a futile gesture but until we stop sitting on our thumbs and do nothing IL will continue to inore we fee paying supporters with utter contempt. Whilst it is nice spouting off on this forum does it say anything to IL other than it's just hot air being spouted by fans on a forum.

Well done mate. What's his email address (if we are allowed to post it on the forum, if not just pm me). :eusa2: :eusa2: :eusa2:

I always use the same email address and usually get some response although it's like drawing teeth waiting for that reply. info@wiganwarriors.com The first couple of times they just chose to ignore me but when I suggested that by ignoring me they where ignoring a fee paying supporter who could always spend his money on other things.

[Wandering Warrior]

All this because of a story in the local rag about a Aussie club being interested in him which is hardly surprising as it happens at the end of every season.

What surprises me is that it is only one club from the NRL and Union.

And where has Burgess himself has said that he is leaving?[/quote]

You know this is more than a story in a local rag.

And where did Sam Tomkins himself say he is leaving. In fact he denied it.
And please don't come back with the doom and gloom brigade garbage. I am as posertive as anyone.I pay for 5 season tickets every year so think i am intitled to have a bit of a rant. Just think ploughing all the money we are into our youth system only to see it as a production line for NRL is worrying.

Just one of the reasons I have this person on my ignore button not worth wasting my time on him. Always knows better than anyone else.

Yes he/she does seem to know better than anyone else. I wonder if that's because the head is buried in the sand?

[DaveO]

Well here is another story from Wigan Today light on facts about this.

http://www.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-w ... -1-6898833

It says Wigan will pull out all the stops to keep him but then doesn't mention anything about how they will do that and just reiterates what has been said in other papers that the Roosters are after him.

One interesting thing it does point out is England coach McNamara is the Roosters assistant coach!

And who has Budgies ear for the next month? McNamara. :eusa17:

[Wandering Warrior]

Apparently the deed was done last week!
And there's more!! Charnley linked with Saracens, don't know how long his contract has to run?