Wiganer Ted wrote:Middle East politics is so complicated.
This Assad is turning out worse than his father and he was a slaughterer of the innocents on a massive scale.
I just thought that the decision not to go ahead and stop Assad killing his own people by the creating a no fly zone over Assad's air bases was wrong.
The USA air force/navy was very well capable of taking out Assad's air forcce and imposing a no fly zone over the areas populated by the ethnic and religious minorities.
We decided not to join then Obama said they wouldn't do it without allies. The first isolationist USA President for a very long while.
Since then Assad's air force has killed tens if not hundreds of thousands of civilians as his air force has freedom of the skies. Now the Russians have joined in leading to more civilian deaths.
Whether it is isis, the Kurds, Sunni or Shia forces then one thing that sent them onto a war footing was Assad.
He now has to be part of the cease fire and only his departure will bring some kind of peace to the area.
Should we always trust what the media tells us about Assad being the baddest of bad people in all this fighting and is there any other ulterior motive behind the press reports.
Assad is being backed by the Russians and a Chinese, resulting in oil heading their way. Of course he will be the culprit in all this according to US and British press because of the oil.
I don't know the full facts as I'm not there but I also don't always believe what the media says in situations like this.
Same tactic is always used with very little evidence. Government's relies on the masses been mis informed and believing that information.
But its always used for a country that has oil and gas. Mugabe has neither but is about as bad a leader as you can get his people starve but with no resources they are not saved.
As for what sent Syria to war it was the West pushing the rebels to fight and arming them. Assad has been hated by his people as his father. But we helped to stir them into a fight they could never win without military support from other countries.
Same for Libya we stirred them into a rebellion and now its as bad if not worse than under Gadaffi.
Easy to blame Assad and Gadaffi but just like Saddam when we were trading and making millions out of them they were left to do what they wanted. Its pure hypocrisy for any leader to say well we need a regime change as they are butchers of their own people when 10-15 years earlier we were arming them.
Wiganer Ted wrote:Middle East politics is so complicated.
This Assad is turning out worse than his father and he was a slaughterer of the innocents on a massive scale.
I just thought that the decision not to go ahead and stop Assad killing his own people by the creating a no fly zone over Assad's air bases was wrong.
The USA air force/navy was very well capable of taking out Assad's air forcce and imposing a no fly zone over the areas populated by the ethnic and religious minorities.
We decided not to join then Obama said they wouldn't do it without allies. The first isolationist USA President for a very long while.
Since then Assad's air force has killed tens if not hundreds of thousands of civilians as his air force has freedom of the skies. Now the Russians have joined in leading to more civilian deaths.
Whether it is isis, the Kurds, Sunni or Shia forces then one thing that sent them onto a war footing was Assad.
He now has to be part of the cease fire and only his departure will bring some kind of peace to the area.
Should we always trust what the media tells us about Assad being the baddest of bad people in all this fighting and is there any other ulterior motive behind the press reports.
Assad is being backed by the Russians and a Chinese, resulting in oil heading their way. Of course he will be the culprit in all this according to US and British press because of the oil.
I don't know the full facts as I'm not there but I also don't always believe what the media says in situations like this.
I read something a few weeks back that it's all about the yanks planning on running a new oil pipeline through Syria and Turkeys so they can cut the Ruskies and a few Arab countries out of the equation, dunno whether it is true or not but it made for some great reading
Wiganer Ted wrote:Middle East politics is so complicated.
This Assad is turning out worse than his father and he was a slaughterer of the innocents on a massive scale.
I just thought that the decision not to go ahead and stop Assad killing his own people by the creating a no fly zone over Assad's air bases was wrong.
The USA air force/navy was very well capable of taking out Assad's air forcce and imposing a no fly zone over the areas populated by the ethnic and religious minorities.
We decided not to join then Obama said they wouldn't do it without allies. The first isolationist USA President for a very long while.
Since then Assad's air force has killed tens if not hundreds of thousands of civilians as his air force has freedom of the skies. Now the Russians have joined in leading to more civilian deaths.
Whether it is isis, the Kurds, Sunni or Shia forces then one thing that sent them onto a war footing was Assad.
He now has to be part of the cease fire and only his departure will bring some kind of peace to the area.
Should we always trust what the media tells us about Assad being the baddest of bad people in all this fighting and is there any other ulterior motive behind the press reports.
Assad is being backed by the Russians and a Chinese, resulting in oil heading their way. Of course he will be the culprit in all this according to US and British press because of the oil.
I don't know the full facts as I'm not there but I also don't always believe what the media says in situations like this.
I read something a few weeks back that it's all about the yanks planning on running a new oil pipeline through Syria and Turkeys so they can cut the Ruskies and a few Arab countries out of the equation, dunno whether it is true or not but it made for some great reading
From what I read Med Russia also had an agreement with Asaad for a gas pipeline and that moment Assad became an enemy.
Oil will be in it as that was the reason all the state boundaries were changed after WW1.
When we were in Iraq from 2003 I bought the book "Seven Pillars of Wisdom" by TE Lawrence.
What went on in 2003 at times seemed like a complete re-run of the battles against the Otterman Turks. Same towns and cities, tanks, artillary, infantry. Eighty odd years on and it seemed so much the same.
No wonder the British "Tommy" called Messopotania the "Messpot" It was then and it still is today!
Panchitta Marra wrote:
Should we always trust what the media tells us about Assad being the baddest of bad people in all this fighting and is there any other ulterior motive behind the press reports.
Assad is being backed by the Russians and a Chinese, resulting in oil heading their way. Of course he will be the culprit in all this according to US and British press because of the oil.
I don't know the full facts as I'm not there but I also don't always believe what the media says in situations like this.
I read something a few weeks back that it's all about the yanks planning on running a new oil pipeline through Syria and Turkeys so they can cut the Ruskies and a few Arab countries out of the equation, dunno whether it is true or not but it made for some great reading
From what I read Med Russia also had an agreement with Asaad for a gas pipeline and that moment Assad became an enemy.
Exactly, the moment a President flirts with other major powers like Russia and China he is branded a Dictator and becomes a enemy of the UK, USA and NATO.
As for the suggestion that the SAS should be sent in to kill Assad.that is a non starter when he is fighting a bigger threat to the world in ISIS.
As a result of Paris, we and USA have now been forced into a situation of helping Assad when they wanted to keep out of it, even to the extent of allowing Europe to be overrun with People fleeing Syria instead of fighting for it.
Wiganer Ted wrote:Middle East politics is so complicated.
This Assad is turning out worse than his father and he was a slaughterer of the innocents on a massive scale.
I just thought that the decision not to go ahead and stop Assad killing his own people by the creating a no fly zone over Assad's air bases was wrong.
The USA air force/navy was very well capable of taking out Assad's air forcce and imposing a no fly zone over the areas populated by the ethnic and religious minorities.
We decided not to join then Obama said they wouldn't do it without allies. The first isolationist USA President for a very long while.
Since then Assad's air force has killed tens if not hundreds of thousands of civilians as his air force has freedom of the skies. Now the Russians have joined in leading to more civilian deaths.
Whether it is isis, the Kurds, Sunni or Shia forces then one thing that sent them onto a war footing was Assad.
He now has to be part of the cease fire and only his departure will bring some kind of peace to the area.
Should we always trust what the media tells us about Assad being the baddest of bad people in all this fighting and is there any other ulterior motive behind the press reports.
Assad is being backed by the Russians and a Chinese, resulting in oil heading their way. Of course he will be the culprit in all this according to US and British press because of the oil.
I don't know the full facts as I'm not there but I also don't always believe what the media says in situations like this.
Same tactic is always used with very little evidence. Government's relies on the masses been mis informed and believing that information.
But its always used for a country that has oil and gas. Mugabe has neither but is about as bad a leader as you can get his people starve but with no resources they are not saved.
As for what sent Syria to war it was the West pushing the rebels to fight and arming them. Assad has been hated by his people as his father. But we helped to stir them into a fight they could never win without military support from other countries.
Same for Libya we stirred them into a rebellion and now its as bad if not worse than under Gadaffi.
Easy to blame Assad and Gadaffi but just like Saddam when we were trading and making millions out of them they were left to do what they wanted. Its pure hypocrisy for any leader to say well we need a regime change as they are butchers of their own people when 10-15 years earlier we were arming them.
From what I understand, Assad has sympathetic feelings towards the West and that his wife was born Christian and although she's converted to Islam, he still allows her to celebrate Christmas. This would be seen in bad light by Muslims as their religion is intolerant of all others. Maybe this goes a long way towards his own people hating him so much?
Panchitta Marra wrote:
Should we always trust what the media tells us about Assad being the baddest of bad people in all this fighting and is there any other ulterior motive behind the press reports.
Assad is being backed by the Russians and a Chinese, resulting in oil heading their way. Of course he will be the culprit in all this according to US and British press because of the oil.
I don't know the full facts as I'm not there but I also don't always believe what the media says in situations like this.
Same tactic is always used with very little evidence. Government's relies on the masses been mis informed and believing that information.
But its always used for a country that has oil and gas. Mugabe has neither but is about as bad a leader as you can get his people starve but with no resources they are not saved.
As for what sent Syria to war it was the West pushing the rebels to fight and arming them. Assad has been hated by his people as his father. But we helped to stir them into a fight they could never win without military support from other countries.
Same for Libya we stirred them into a rebellion and now its as bad if not worse than under Gadaffi.
Easy to blame Assad and Gadaffi but just like Saddam when we were trading and making millions out of them they were left to do what they wanted. Its pure hypocrisy for any leader to say well we need a regime change as they are butchers of their own people when 10-15 years earlier we were arming them.
From what I understand, Assad has sympathetic feelings towards the West and that his wife was born Christian and although she's converted to Islam, he still allows her to celebrate Christmas. This would be seen in bad light by Muslims as their religion is intolerant of all others. Maybe this goes a long way towards his own people hating him so much?
Hatred is more to do with the sects of Islam in the country. Assad's sect is in the minority. Hatred stems even to his father before him.
thegimble wrote:
Same tactic is always used with very little evidence. Government's relies on the masses been mis informed and believing that information.
But its always used for a country that has oil and gas. Mugabe has neither but is about as bad a leader as you can get his people starve but with no resources they are not saved.
As for what sent Syria to war it was the West pushing the rebels to fight and arming them. Assad has been hated by his people as his father. But we helped to stir them into a fight they could never win without military support from other countries.
Same for Libya we stirred them into a rebellion and now its as bad if not worse than under Gadaffi.
Easy to blame Assad and Gadaffi but just like Saddam when we were trading and making millions out of them they were left to do what they wanted. Its pure hypocrisy for any leader to say well we need a regime change as they are butchers of their own people when 10-15 years earlier we were arming them.
From what I understand, Assad has sympathetic feelings towards the West and that his wife was born Christian and although she's converted to Islam, he still allows her to celebrate Christmas. This would be seen in bad light by Muslims as their religion is intolerant of all others. Maybe this goes a long way towards his own people hating him so much?
Hatred is more to do with the sects of Islam in the country. Assad's sect is in the minority. Hatred stems even to his father before him.
Assad and family being Shiite's when most in Syria are Sunnie's, and like Saddam in Iraq, a situation where the minority are ruling the majority.
Perhaps one of the main reasons why so many fled from Iraq under Saddam and now doing likewise in Syria under Assad.
Panchitta Marra wrote:
From what I understand, Assad has sympathetic feelings towards the West and that his wife was born Christian and although she's converted to Islam, he still allows her to celebrate Christmas. This would be seen in bad light by Muslims as their religion is intolerant of all others. Maybe this goes a long way towards his own people hating him so much?
Hatred is more to do with the sects of Islam in the country. Assad's sect is in the minority. Hatred stems even to his father before him.
Assad and family being Shiite's when most in Syria are Sunnie's, and like Saddam in Iraq, a situation where the minority are ruling the majority.
Perhaps one of the main reasons why so many fled from Iraq under Saddam and now doing likewise in Syria under Assad.
This debate show just how difficult the political situation really is. We're well past recriminations I feel well out of my depth on how this state of affairs can be resolved Like Gimble I can see this tragedy going on for years. I'm also concerned that the "right flank" of NATO has seemingly got a "Trogen Horse in the ranks,namely Turkey. With allies like them we need to keep looking over our shoulder. Hope this fear is irrational but it is a matter that concerns me. What do others think?
thegimble wrote:
Hatred is more to do with the sects of Islam in the country. Assad's sect is in the minority. Hatred stems even to his father before him.
Assad and family being Shiite's when most in Syria are Sunnie's, and like Saddam in Iraq, a situation where the minority are ruling the majority.
Perhaps one of the main reasons why so many fled from Iraq under Saddam and now doing likewise in Syria under Assad.
This debate show just how difficult the political situation really is. We're well past recriminations I feel well out of my depth on how this state of affairs can be resolved Like Gimble I can see this tragedy going on for years. I'm also concerned that the "right flank" of NATO has seemingly got a "Trogen Horse in the ranks,namely Turkey. With allies like them we need to keep looking over our shoulder. Hope this fear is irrational but it is a matter that concerns me. What do others think?
No surprise about Turkey as it is a Islamic country, but at the same trying to get membershipship of the European Union which should never be allowed for obvvious reasons.