cpwigan wrote:For those who say cap is a nothing excuse. I will suggest that you will see one club, possibly two that the big earners will shrink, they already are. Such players and you cannot do it for everybody could be trusted by their clubs to stay and quietly collect much more than any SC ever suggested. It is not something you can constantly do and not for everybody because the moment one breaks rank it would be a frightening mess for the club / RL.
I agree players will eventually break ranks if paid outside of the cap so clubs will be daft to do it. So unless you think Leeds are this daft (I don't) how did they manage to keep a side of top players together for years at the same time as recruiting established pros when required and also bringing in top young talent?
Speculating about how they do it is rather pointless. We just know that they do and we can't. That is the issue.
Players peak Dave; at different ages. Thus far the evidence is that Josh had his peak 2 seasons ago. Thereafter, you know, I know that in a shoot out Budgie, Dom and Josh that Josh would be dropped and that is not down to Wane. Josh is a fairly ordinary defender be it positioning, tackle technique or fielding kicks. Hall/Leeds regularly made him look poop and Widnes bar the bounce not going their way had Josh all over the place for kicks.
I never judge any winger on tries scored BTW. Josh scored a hattrick v Hull KR. How good was that?
cpwigan wrote:For those who say cap is a nothing excuse. I will suggest that you will see one club, possibly two that the big earners will shrink, they already are. Such players and you cannot do it for everybody could be trusted by their clubs to stay and quietly collect much more than any SC ever suggested. It is not something you can constantly do and not for everybody because the moment one breaks rank it would be a frightening mess for the club / RL.
I agree players will eventually break ranks if paid outside of the cap so clubs will be daft to do it. So unless you think Leeds are this daft (I don't) how did they manage to keep a side of top players together for years at the same time as recruiting established pros when required and also bringing in top young talent?
Speculating about how they do it is rather pointless. We just know that they do and we can't. That is the issue.
You say Leeds; I am not naming anybody
I do know no cap and fewer players would leave SL for RU or the NRL and the players attracted would be better than now.
Today, if Unions or the NRL come knocking offering silly money, you grab it and say thanks. You might even hate playing that sport. Too short a career not to.
Wigan_forever1985 wrote:I think we need to get to the bottom of why the grass is always greener than it is in Wigan for anyone with the slightest good rep.
As has been said if you look at Wire/Leeds/St Helens (our main competition) how many of their top players have left in the last 3-4 years? Leeds are the exception and that was due to retirement (I include sinfield in that as anyone who thinks the RU was just another retirement fund is a bit naive)
Its not as though Sarge is setting the world alight either - he has potential but as yet to prove a class player.
I have 2 theories away from the far too obvious and easy money
1) The Management - the environment is proving detrimental and is making people want to leave (im not saying wane in particular but somewhere in that management structure)
2) Agents - is someone within wigan too good friends with an agent meaning that deals are being done with inside knowledge helping them along in the players/other teams favour
Good point. Sometimes people leave jobs because they don't agree with the senior management. And not just their line manager .
Wigan_forever1985 wrote:I think we need to get to the bottom of why the grass is always greener than it is in Wigan for anyone with the slightest good rep.
As has been said if you look at Wire/Leeds/St Helens (our main competition) how many of their top players have left in the last 3-4 years? Leeds are the exception and that was due to retirement (I include sinfield in that as anyone who thinks the RU was just another retirement fund is a bit naive)
Its not as though Sarge is setting the world alight either - he has potential but as yet to prove a class player.
I have 2 theories away from the far too obvious and easy money
1) The Management - the environment is proving detrimental and is making people want to leave (im not saying wane in particular but somewhere in that management structure)
2) Agents - is someone within wigan too good friends with an agent meaning that deals are being done with inside knowledge helping them along in the players/other teams favour
Good point. Sometimes people leave jobs because they don't agree with the senior management. And not just their line manager .
IFL and Rads should be the guys questioned about our inability to retain players not Waney. Far too often it appears that we let a player's contract wind down before commencing negotiations. If we think a player is good enough, long term, for our club then discussions should commence, in the close season, two years prior to their contract expiring. We have left it too late with Josh, the horse had already bolted.
Winning is down to 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration - Shaun Edwards
We lost a better winger in Joe Burgess after the first 3-4 bad games than Josh is now. Hopefully we will tempt Burgess back with the money and tie Manfredi and him to a long contract and keep them to it.
If not Carney is the only winger I would go for from SL apart from Ryan Hall but he ain't moving. Carney been decent over the last 3 years whilst most others have a decent few games a year and go awol after.
Wigan_forever1985 wrote:But other teams cp don't leak players like we do
Let's face it the only reason Sam, Joel and mossop are back is because they pretty much failed when they left.
I just don't see why wire, saints and Leeds don't seem to be losing 3-4 players per season of good quality - it's not due to us having more talent
The cap argument only is valid if it's happening to all teams - but it's not - it's us
We have the best youth policy, the best group of young players, arguably, collectively the best squad of players in the UK which is why WF we are always going to be under the greatest pressure to retain everybody and will lose more.
I understand losing players like mellor etc who were down the pecking order and not getting game time. This however is about us losing our regular starters on a regular basis something that out of the top clubs is unique to us it seems
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure
thegimble wrote:We lost a better winger in Joe Burgess after the first 3-4 bad games than Josh is now. Hopefully we will tempt Burgess back with the money and tie Manfredi and him to a long contract and keep them to it.
If not Carney is the only winger I would go for from SL apart from Ryan Hall but he ain't moving. Carney been decent over the last 3 years whilst most others have a decent few games a year and go awol after.
Agree Odd that plenty bagged both Josh and Sarge but now the club is at fault. I can never remember Dave O screaming blue murder when Josh was dropped for Budgie or Manfredi. Within 24 hours Josh has become Martin Offiah, Eric Grothe, Jason Robinson etc etc.
