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morley pie eater wrote:Our forwards' "go forward":

Here are stats for Carries / Average gain:

Bateman - 20/6.25
Crosby - 4/5.75
Flower - 10/5.4
Isa - 11/4.9
Mossop - 10/8.0
FPN. -. 5/4.8
Lockers 14/3.9
Powell - 16/5.3
Sutton - 11/5.9

I'd quote number of tackles too but it would only invite the "3rd man in" response.

The stats say Mossop was possibly our best prop, certainly going forward. He also did 25 tackles (3 missed), 12 marker tackles, 1 bust, 0 errors, 0 penalties.

How many carry ups did centres and wingers do and how much did Saints do we have no need for props.

thegimble wrote:

morley pie eater wrote:Our forwards' "go forward":

Here are stats for Carries / Average gain:

Bateman - 20/6.25
Crosby - 4/5.75
Flower - 10/5.4
Isa - 11/4.9
Mossop - 10/8.0
FPN. -. 5/4.8
Lockers 14/3.9
Powell - 16/5.3
Sutton - 11/5.9

I'd quote number of tackles too but it would only invite the "3rd man in" response.

The stats say Mossop was possibly our best prop, certainly going forward. He also did 25 tackles (3 missed), 12 marker tackles, 1 bust, 0 errors, 0 penalties.

How many carry ups did centres and wingers do and how much did Saints do we have no need for props.

For our full back and threequarters (carries/average gain):

Sam 11/5.4
Manfredi 14/9.4
Sarge 19/6.2
Gildart 16/5.2
Tierney 15/5.9 Total 75/6.4

Saints:
(not sure who played what position)

Percival 11/4.8
Knowles 6/4.7
Fleming 8/8.1
Owens 14/4.4
Lomax 10/7.2
Swift 10/7.1 Total: 59/5.9

This means you're right, Gimble. Our 5 players did 75 carries, averaging 15 each, and made a total of 480 metres.
The 6 Saints' players did just 59 carries (average 10 each) and made 348 metres.

The centres stand out with 35 carries against 21 for Percival and Swift. I suspect many of these Wigan carries were battering ram style, compared to the semi-scousers.

Hope this all makes sense?

morley pie eater wrote:

thegimble wrote:

morley pie eater wrote:Our forwards' "go forward":

Here are stats for Carries / Average gain:

Bateman - 20/6.25
Crosby - 4/5.75
Flower - 10/5.4
Isa - 11/4.9
Mossop - 10/8.0
FPN. -. 5/4.8
Lockers 14/3.9
Powell - 16/5.3
Sutton - 11/5.9

I'd quote number of tackles too but it would only invite the "3rd man in" response.

The stats say Mossop was possibly our best prop, certainly going forward. He also did 25 tackles (3 missed), 12 marker tackles, 1 bust, 0 errors, 0 penalties.

How many carry ups did centres and wingers do and how much did Saints do we have no need for props.

For our full back and threequarters (carries/average gain):

Sam 11/5.4
Manfredi 14/9.4
Sarge 19/6.2
Gildart 16/5.2
Tierney 15/5.9 Total 75/6.4

Saints:
(not sure who played what position)

Percival 11/4.8
Knowles 6/4.7
Fleming 8/8.1
Owens 14/4.4
Lomax 10/7.2
Swift 10/7.1 Total: 59/5.9

This means you're right, Gimble. Our 5 players did 75 carries, averaging 15 each, and made a total of 480 metres.
The 6 Saints' players did just 59 carries (average 10 each) and made 348 metres.

The centres stand out with 35 carries against 21 for Percival and Swift. I suspect many of these Wigan carries were battering ram style, compared to the semi-scousers.

Hope this all makes sense?

Yes thanks. We have to use props and second rows more it stupid to let a winger run into 2-3 forwards when they are not tired.

I agree with the Subject heading.Worst Derby ever. Havent missed one for many ,many years.I came off with 11mins to go and have never done that before.
Seems for some weeks we have crawled over the winning line and last night serving up the same dish again didn't work.Predictability,lack of invention,quality,class.Along with a lack of basic school rugby [catch ball,pass backwards,stay onside,run toward the opponents line] made Sts look better than they are.Did we actually break a tackle,side step and break ther line.If we did we dropped the dam ball or went left and not right.

Look,Martin Offiah was the only man last night worthy of applause or a wigan shirt.He couldn't tackle a Burtons window Manikin. He did have class though.
So,where are our Class players.Few and far between.
So,where is the Mighty Wigan team.We dont have one.Changes in players means we are playing and blooding new blokes every week.Against good sides in top,top matches.

Richards,Burgess,Tompkins,Tommy Lului to name a few.All top class.We generally have replaced them with good players.NOT World Class players.

As for Wane.Hes 102% Wigan and i wouldn't swop him for anything.
Hes been Trying to make silk owta sows ear for some time now.

Get Tommy,Burgess and super mac back.Sam fit,Farrell fit,and a few others .We will see who are the boys.

BTW,BATEMAN WAS TOP CLAS FOR 60MINS.

4G

thegimble wrote:How many carry ups did centres and wingers do and how much did Saints do we have no need for props.

Our kicks never got as far as the Saints full back and wingers so they probably made fewer carries than normal.

TrueBlueWarrior wrote:I might be exaggerating here but I don't think I am, we must have dropped at least 20 balls last night, that is inexcusable and when you are not playing well it just compounds it further!! Awful performance except Mossop in my opinion!!

Got it in a nutshell TBW(imo)

Not sure how we'll go on next week but one thing is for sure, drop that much ball and we've no chance.

Think you could argue that the ball should have gone more inside and played more up the middle, even on the 5th tackle at times but that's easy to say in hindsight.

IMO, we lost because of the errors rather than the tactics.

jobo wrote:

TrueBlueWarrior wrote:I might be exaggerating here but I don't think I am, we must have dropped at least 20 balls last night, that is inexcusable and when you are not playing well it just compounds it further!! Awful performance except Mossop in my opinion!!

Got it in a nutshell TBW(imo)

Not sure how we'll go on next week but one thing is for sure, drop that much ball and we've no chance.

Think you could argue that the ball should have gone more inside and played more up the middle, even on the 5th tackle at times but that's easy to say in hindsight.

IMO, we lost because of the errors rather than the tactics.

I think our completion rate in the first half was 30-40%, now I think that was down to errors more than tactics, but however you look at it, it's completely unacceptable!!

The quality of the players is just not good enough at present. Go back to McGuire's first season and compare his players to the current one's and ask "who in this team would have made it into his team" They were in a different class in my opinion, talented, exciting to watch, well coached and winners. I couldn't wait to get to the DW to see the show.

After saying that I also believe the overall standard of Super League is declining yearly. It clearly doesn't help that so many really good British players go to play in Australia. It's a real problem isn't it?

TrueBlueWarrior wrote: I think our completion rate in the first half was 30-40%, now I think that was down to errors more than tactics

Do you think the players are not good enough to carry out the tactics or that Saints simply knew what we were going to do and pressurized us into making those mistakes?

For me I think it was a combination of the two. Yes, we hurt more in the tackle and some were really big hits BUT Saints won due to their more pressurized/controlled defense, rushing up at the ptb and cutting our attack down before our slow passing managed to move out the rucks.

So in a way, they closed us down and we (as per usual) had no plan b to alter what was occurring in match. That was a failure of the coach and as such the tactics employed over the 80 minutes