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Just reading through this and a question.
I always thought the cap was just in place for players not coaches backroom staff?

Second re Powell in 2016 when he played 80 minute games I thought he was better than average with the potential to improve. In the world club chalenge, we won I thought this progression was still in place, as for me he was my MOM that game. I think laying as interchange was detromental to him, his workrate and 80 minutes allow an extra forward/place on the bench. He was below average last season but who wasnt? The whole team lacked all the things that are being aimed at him, he wasn't alone and in a lot of cases those players would be on much higher contracts.
Im not saying I wasn't as frustrated and at times bored of our lack of rugby and critical of Powell and others but in 2016 he played well and with the injuries the team over achieved.
2017 waz shocking mostly because I thought we could have dominated and we fell way short. Stats while not always the exact story of a player are used by teams and for reason. I have never thought Williams deserved the critical comments that go way behond what he deserves. The stats add up to a player trying hard behind a beaten team. Our style needs to change forwards working like forwards backs like backs most use stats to back that up suppose thats only when it backs up their point!

josie andrews wrote:
What has everybody got against the lad? He played where he is told to in 2016 even though it was an alien position for him, he played 80 minutes, was one of the highest tacklers, try’s his best but still is pilloried on here! He’s a squad player yes, but at least he gives his all.

I think the majority of dismay is not at Powell as an individual (though i appreciate the comment you replied to was personal and i agree that is uncalled for), but more the fact that Powell seems to be completely untouchable and his talent/effectiveness does not match that status

Your statement in bold worries me because this could be said about more and more of the Wigan team as of late, MM was not a "squad player" he was at one time the best hooker in England and was returning to form after a serious injury. The last games he played he was playing very well for Ireland good enough to be wanted by several clubs including in the NRL

Widnes would be about the correct level for Powell IMO, but what is good enough for Widnes should NOT be considered good enough for Wigan!. I know people will probably give me the "no god given right to win/have good players etc" but if you act like a small club you become a small club and thats we are fast on our way too.

i hope im wrong but i can see a bleak season ahead

Wigan_forever19​85​ wrote:

josie andrews wrote:
What has everybody got against the lad? He played where he is told to in 2016 even though it was an alien position for him, he played 80 minutes, was one of the highest tacklers, try’s his best but still is pilloried on here! He’s a squad player yes, but at least he gives his all.

I think the majority of dismay is not at Powell as an individual (though i appreciate the comment you replied to was personal and i agree that is uncalled for), but more the fact that Powell seems to be completely untouchable and his talent/effectiveness does not match that status

Your statement in bold worries me because this could be said about more and more of the Wigan team as of late, MM was not a "squad player" he was at one time the best hooker in England and was returning to form after a serious injury. The last games he played he was playing very well for Ireland good enough to be wanted by several clubs including in the NRL

Widnes would be about the correct level for Powell IMO, but what is good enough for Widnes should NOT be considered good enough for Wigan!. I know people will probably give me the "no god given right to win/have good players etc" but if you act like a small club you become a small club and thats we are fast on our way too.

i hope im wrong but i can see a bleak season ahead

What do you consider bleak?

I think we could be genuinely looking at the middle 8's

I'm as annoyed as the next man, woman, gender neutral person on here, but we've still got a squad and first 17 more than capable of finishing top 4.

Anything less and its a huge underachievement.

Keep our best fit for the right games and we could easily pick up trophies.

Wigan_forever19​85​ wrote:I think we could be genuinely looking at the middle 8's

£20 bet to a charity of the winners choice we finish in the top 8?

AdamMac wrote:I'm as annoyed as the next man, woman, gender neutral person on here, but we've still got a squad and first 17 more than capable of finishing top 4.

Anything less and its a huge underachievement.

Keep our best fit for the right games and we could easily pick up trophies.

The team is weaker than last years team that narrowly avoided the 8's and injuries have been a massive part of our team for the last 2 years so when something continually happens its not usually luck (good/bad) its usually a trend and trends usually continue

Putting that aside our team is only "good" on paper look a bit more in depth and there is a lot of questions, assume the below is the starting line up;

1. Escare - coming back from a big injury who knows how he will recover

2. Marshall/Davis - youngsters with a lot of potential no issue there

3. Sarge - assuming they arent even more stupid to move gildart sarge is a bang average player to start with, add to that he will be playing on the opposite side to his "strongest" add to that he again has been out with a massive injury, add to that he will be likely paired with a rookie (albeit talent player) and we could have a barn door of a right hand side defence.

4. Gildart - one of the best centres in the league
5. Burgess - was poor IMO since his return, struggled for the pace that made him so dangerous, will either recover and be brilliant again or will continue to be good but not special anymore

6. S. Tomkins - playing in a position he hasnt played in for nearly a decade

7. Williams - Poor last season especially toward the end of the season, new half back - likely to recover but questions are being raised, the fact the best coach in the game prefered brown and an out of form Gale doesnt bode well

8. FPN - awful last season, dont know why it would turn around unless he is looking for a path back to the NRL but at his stage of career will he have the engery?

9. Leuluai - completely anonymous last season, would be playing in a more suited position but another year older makes it harder to turn around poor form. Puts in great big hits but can leave gaps in doing so

10. Flower - never been the same since the LH incident, barely average when he was playing easily missable - coming off a serious injury

11. Bateman - overworked but still capable of being a top top player, will have a big job plugging the defensive holes on that right hand side

12. Farrell - One of the best 2nd rowers in the comp

13. Lockers - likely to play 50% of the time again

14. Powell - average
15. Clubb - aggressive should start more but doesnt
16. Tautai - has been on balance our best prop last few seasons
17. Isa - again avg

I may be being pessimistic but i feel like that im more realistic. We havent made a a single signing to strengthen the squad we have the same coaching staff so dont expect any changes to our style. weve lost a first choice hooker good enough to coveted by other clubs including NRL and replaced him with a retiring player and someone who tries hard.

Several of players are returning from what could be performance altering injuries, several of are players need the caveat of "on their day" or "when fit" before they can be referred to as good enough for the team and Our main player will only be fit for half a season but there still wont be a plan to play without him

Wire/Stains/Leeds will all finish above us IMO
Hull FC and Cas will probably finish above us
I think we are then in the Catalan/Salford/Huddersfield zone
Wakey will struggle without Kear i feel, Widnes and Hull KR will fight out the wooden spoon

Wes wrote:

Wigan_forever19​85​ wrote:I think we could be genuinely looking at the middle 8's

£20 bet to a charity of the winners choice we finish in the top 8?

Im not saying we definitely will be in the middle 8's but i think its more likely that us winning the league put it that way.

Id do the bet at top 4 if youre interested

Wes wrote:

DaveO wrote:The stats are pretty useless as they don't include number of appearances, game time given we interchange hookers nor do they include who they were made against and at what stage of a match.

However you don't need stats if you actually watch the game and have the slightest clue as to what makes a decent hooker to know Powell isn't one.

There is already a far better post that sums up his failings on this forum so I am not going to repeat them here. I am sure you will have read it.


If as someone else said he was offered more money to stay then IL, Rads and Wane are incompetent. They should have let Widnes have him for free.

There have been numerous posts defending IL particularly from you Wes but after years running the club we have come to a point where the cap is being mismanaged worse than it was under Mo Lindsay and DW. It must be because top class players are few and far between in a squad now made up of senior players who mostly ought to retire, mediocre players like Powell and Sarge and with us being told un proven juniors like Ganson are OK backups for first team players.

Yet again we are a couple of injuries off a crisis and are told the reason we are offloading MM is because we can't afford him because of FPN's wages. If FPN is taking up so much cap space then who's fault is that!

If stats are pointless clubs wouldn’t use them but oh wait they do.

Tries scored - pointless (oxymoron)
Try assists
Clean breaks
Offloads
Errors
Penalties
Missed tackles are all crucial to winning or losing a game.

People moan the club tell us nothing sooo in your last paragraph and are told the reason we are offloading MM ...... who’s told us that? Have the club come out and said that? Or is it speculation from here?

Stats aren’t pointless, but they have to be comparable to have a point!!

TrueBlueWarrior wrote:

Wes wrote:

DaveO wrote:The stats are pretty useless as they don't include number of appearances, game time given we interchange hookers nor do they include who they were made against and at what stage of a match.

However you don't need stats if you actually watch the game and have the slightest clue as to what makes a decent hooker to know Powell isn't one.

There is already a far better post that sums up his failings on this forum so I am not going to repeat them here. I am sure you will have read it.


If as someone else said he was offered more money to stay then IL, Rads and Wane are incompetent. They should have let Widnes have him for free.

There have been numerous posts defending IL particularly from you Wes but after years running the club we have come to a point where the cap is being mismanaged worse than it was under Mo Lindsay and DW. It must be because top class players are few and far between in a squad now made up of senior players who mostly ought to retire, mediocre players like Powell and Sarge and with us being told un proven juniors like Ganson are OK backups for first team players.

Yet again we are a couple of injuries off a crisis and are told the reason we are offloading MM is because we can't afford him because of FPN's wages. If FPN is taking up so much cap space then who's fault is that!

If stats are pointless clubs wouldn’t use them but oh wait they do.

Tries scored - pointless (oxymoron)
Try assists
Clean breaks
Offloads
Errors
Penalties
Missed tackles are all crucial to winning or losing a game.

People moan the club tell us nothing sooo in your last paragraph and are told the reason we are offloading MM ...... who’s told us that? Have the club come out and said that? Or is it speculation from here?

Stats aren’t pointless, but they have to be comparable to have a point!!

Like playing in the same team in the same position for roughly the same amount of game time against the same opposition. Like that kind of comparible?