Should Joel be Sacked?

[medlocke]

I think the comments about it quickly becoming a Terry Newton are ridiculous. People lose their jobs all the time for all sorts of reasons including discipl,inary ones. They do not top themselves and the notion that the club (as some other poster said) need to take into account his personal situation when thinking about any punishment is quite frankly bizarre.

Talk about trying to make a drama out of a crisis!

In fact I think bringing Newton into it is a pretty risible link to make.

Suggesting fans are using this as an excuse to get at an unpopular player isn't much better either.

You are right about one thing, if there wasn't a video of it, it would have been over by now. It certainly would and there would also be no fine nor suspension either which reflects badly on the club and its willingness to brush this under the carpet. But there was a video and that video highlights the bad behaviour. It puts how bad it was into focus. I suspect had there been a video of some other players behaviour we would not be signing him but just because there isn't that doesn't mean it's an excuse to let JT off.

As to RL player snot being role models. Talk to Rads and the club. They say they are.

Raising the link to Terry isn’t making a drama out of a crisis, talk to Danny Sculthorpe about how having played a team sport his entire life and then having it taken away, is not only a loss of job, it’s a loss of identity, and comradeship. Which led to him sitting on Billinge hill with pills and a bottle of vodka. I’m not suggesting that would happen, but who’d of thought Terry would have done what he did. As Josie says we don’t know what’s going on in the background

So if we sacked Joell there would be a instant topic appears on who to get to replace him, it’s sport, fans always want new players in, but in a salary capped sport it’s difficult to bring players in mid season, if we’ve no cap space we can’t bring anyone in, unless someone is moved on, and in some people eyes I think Joel has just volunteered

2 topics down from this one is a discussion on players for next year, I just find it hard to believe all these people who want to move him on have never made a mistake or got drunk, granted he was an obnoxious tool, but it appears an isolated incident.

Players can be role models when on club duty ie in work, and that’s when they need to be the idols, but even god got a day off. But as I said it’s down to how this is used, my lad is now asking questions about alcohol and short and long term effects, as a parent we are discussing it in terms he can understand, and this should be part of his rehab, and can be used as a positive,

They got rat arsed at some event or party ffs, why are certain fans trying to make it into something it isn't :eusa4:

[thegimble]

Sack him for what has he bottled anyone has he smashed anyone through a door.

Joels issue is not what he did but that he had come back a rather poor player compared to the one that we had previous. Bateman Whose action is a lot worse than Joel's yet not many wanted him gone. Double standads. Here I feel.

[TrueBlueWarrior]

Sack him for what has he bottled anyone has he smashed anyone through a door.

Joels issue is not what he did but that he had come back a rather poor player compared to the one that we had previous. Bateman Whose action is a lot worse than Joel's yet not many wanted him gone. Double standads. Here I feel.

Totally agree!

[medlocke]

Sack him for what has he bottled anyone has he smashed anyone through a door.

Joels issue is not what he did but that he had come back a rather poor player compared to the one that we had previous. Bateman Whose action is a lot worse than Joel's yet not many wanted him gone. Double standads. Here I feel.

I thought it was established on here that there was no bottle involved in the Batey/Mossy saga and the main offender was moved on, Joel has put himself into this situation by being a complete bell end and also by man handling a defenseless female woman, there is a bigger picture here, merely banning and fining him sends out a message to current and future players that they can behave like total knob skins and all they will get is a slap on the hand, Sacking Joel sends out a message that the club no longer fooks about when it comes to bad behaviour

[jinkin jimmy]

Sack him for what has he bottled anyone has he smashed anyone through a door.

Joels issue is not what he did but that he had come back a rather poor player compared to the one that we had previous. Bateman Whose action is a lot worse than Joel's yet not many wanted him gone. Double standads. Here I feel.

I thought it was established on here that there was no bottle involved in the Batey/Mossy saga and the main offender was moved on, Joel has put himself into this situation by being a complete bell end and also by man handling a defenseless female woman, there is a bigger picture here, merely banning and fining him sends out a message to current and future players that they can behave like total knob skins and all they will get is a slap on the hand, Sacking Joel sends out a message that the club no longer fooks about when it comes to bad behaviour

It's always worse when the woman is also female

[thegimble]

Sack him for what has he bottled anyone has he smashed anyone through a door.

Joels issue is not what he did but that he had come back a rather poor player compared to the one that we had previous. Bateman Whose action is a lot worse than Joel's yet not many wanted him gone. Double standads. Here I feel.

I thought it was established on here that there was no bottle involved in the Batey/Mossy saga and the main offender was moved on, Joel has put himself into this situation by being a complete bell end and also by man handling a defenseless female woman, there is a bigger picture here, merely banning and fining him sends out a message to current and future players that they can behave like total knob skins and all they will get is a slap on the hand, Sacking Joel sends out a message that the club no longer fooks about when it comes to bad behaviour

Should the club have done the same to Bateman and Mossopp at the time. Message could have been done at that time. Or is Bateman irreplaceable. He got 8 weeks ban seems the club thinks Bateman's was worse.

[medlocke]

Sack him for what has he bottled anyone has he smashed anyone through a door.

Joels issue is not what he did but that he had come back a rather poor player compared to the one that we had previous. Bateman Whose action is a lot worse than Joel's yet not many wanted him gone. Double standads. Here I feel.

I thought it was established on here that there was no bottle involved in the Batey/Mossy saga and the main offender was moved on, Joel has put himself into this situation by being a complete bell end and also by man handling a defenseless female woman, there is a bigger picture here, merely banning and fining him sends out a message to current and future players that they can behave like total knob skins and all they will get is a slap on the hand, Sacking Joel sends out a message that the club no longer fooks about when it comes to bad behaviour

Should the club have done the same to Bateman and Mossopp at the time. Message could have been done at that time. Or is Bateman irreplaceable. He got 8 weeks ban seems the club thinks Bateman's was worse.

I recall at the time Mossop got binned off there was loads of talk on here that he was an arsehole and always causing trouble, Batey reacted in a wrong way, it was also out of the sight of the public eye and iirc, there was plenty on here and elsewhere calling for Batey to go as well, Batey would never of attacked Mossy if it had not been for Mossy being a complete arse, When dealing with problems like these you get rid of the root of problem and not the casualties. the end

[morley pie eater]

NO

This is in danger of becoming a witch hunt, yes his behaviour was unacceptable, and hopefully he is rightly embarrassed, but action has been taken, he has been suspended and fined, move on. The real problem here is trial by media, if there wasn’t a video of it, it would have blown over by now.
Alcohol is a problem, but there are other issues, how was he allowed to get so drunk on licensed premises? The landlord and staff have a legal responsibility to stop serving him if he is visibly inebriated, this may have been what started the incident, I don’t know, does anyone? All we have seen are the 2 videos that are the result, we don’t know what lead up to that point or the context. I’m not blaming the staff by the way, just trying to look at the different angles on this.

I did a quick Google search on drunk rugby players, and found this incident at Bath a month ago

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-un ... g-10346165

Basically 11 players on a “wind down” session organised by the club got drunk, streaked round the ground and hurled insults at George Ford, problem is he was hosting an event (a kicking clinic) for children whose parents had paid for them to attend.
It wasn’t videoed, so it never made anything other than a story in the mirror, No one got sacked, that happened on club premises, at a club event.

We can’t compare to other codes, but there are precedents look at Dec or Ant whichever one isn’t on TV at the moment, he was bladdered and drove, crashed his car, into an innocent passer-by, to me drink driving is infinitely worse than what Tomkins did, I didn’t see Matthew Right hosting a debate on whether he should be allowed on TV again. He admitted a problem, and will be a national treasure again this time next year.

People make mistakes, people get punished that’s the cycle, Tomkins isn’t a role model, he’s a rugby player (or not if you look at some people’s opinions) my son loves the rugby, but we’ve explained to him what Joel did and why it was bad, that’s my job as a parent, my son gets his moral standards from me, not the 13 players on a rugby field, he idolises them as young fans do, but it’s served a positive, my son is now anti-alcohol as he can see the effects it has on people, he’s only 11 so that may change, but that’s what need to monitor as a parent.

As someone else mentioned, this can very quickly become another Terry Newton, player ostracised for making a mistake, loses his lively hood and can’t support his family, we know how that ended.

This is a convenient way for some fans to try and get a player who is underperforming at the moment out so we can bring someone new in.

I think the comments about it quickly becoming a Terry Newton are ridiculous. People lose their jobs all the time for all sorts of reasons including discipl,inary ones. They do not top themselves and the notion that the club (as some other poster said) need to take into account his personal situation when thinking about any punishment is quite frankly bizarre.

Talk about trying to make a drama out of a crisis!

In fact I think bringing Newton into it is a pretty risible link to make.

Suggesting fans are using this as an excuse to get at an unpopular player isn't much better either.

You are right about one thing, if there wasn't a video of it, it would have been over by now. It certainly would and there would also be no fine nor suspension either which reflects badly on the club and its willingness to brush this under the carpet. But there was a video and that video highlights the bad behaviour. It puts how bad it was into focus. I suspect had there been a video of some other players behaviour we would not be signing him but just because there isn't that doesn't mean it's an excuse to let JT off.

As to RL player snot being role models. Talk to Rads and the club. They say they are.

You say it is ridiculous Dave, but do you have inside knowledge about what is happening in Joel’s private life away from RL?

You never know but something could have triggered the drinking binge!

Because from several people who know Joel well, they have all reiterated that it is totally out of character for him to behave this way.

With due respect, Josie, I think there are 2 issues here which are related but separate:

If Joel has done something to bring the club into disrepute, the appropriate sanction should be applied.

If Joel has personal problems, the club should help him deal with them as far as it can.

One doesn't provide an excuse for the other.

Gaz Hock's case was a good example. He copped the ban, the club supported his rehabilitation. The difference with Joel is that the club should be responsible for both, but this doesn't / shouldn't mean a lesser "punishment".

[morley pie eater]

I thought it was established on here that there was no bottle involved in the Batey/Mossy saga and the main offender was moved on, Joel has put himself into this situation by being a complete bell end and also by man handling a defenseless female woman, there is a bigger picture here, merely banning and fining him sends out a message to current and future players that they can behave like total knob skins and all they will get is a slap on the hand, Sacking Joel sends out a message that the club no longer fooks about when it comes to bad behaviour

Should the club have done the same to Bateman and Mossopp at the time. Message could have been done at that time. Or is Bateman irreplaceable. He got 8 weeks ban seems the club thinks Bateman's was worse.

I recall at the time Mossop got binned off there was loads of talk on here that he was an arsehole and always causing trouble, Batey reacted in a wrong way, it was also out of the sight of the public eye and iirc, there was plenty on here and elsewhere calling for Batey to go as well, Batey would never of attacked Mossy if it had not been for Mossy being a complete arse, When dealing with problems like these you get rid of the root of problem and not the casualties. the end

I don't see any parallel with Bateman. If the club had followed that precedent, Joel's ban would have been imposed weeks before the video appeared, and the club would have said "JT is suspended for a breach of club discipline, no further statement will be made."

[thegimble]

I thought it was established on here that there was no bottle involved in the Batey/Mossy saga and the main offender was moved on, Joel has put himself into this situation by being a complete bell end and also by man handling a defenseless female woman, there is a bigger picture here, merely banning and fining him sends out a message to current and future players that they can behave like total knob skins and all they will get is a slap on the hand, Sacking Joel sends out a message that the club no longer fooks about when it comes to bad behaviour

Should the club have done the same to Bateman and Mossopp at the time. Message could have been done at that time. Or is Bateman irreplaceable. He got 8 weeks ban seems the club thinks Bateman's was worse.

I recall at the time Mossop got binned off there was loads of talk on here that he was an arsehole and always causing trouble, Batey reacted in a wrong way, it was also out of the sight of the public eye and iirc, there was plenty on here and elsewhere calling for Batey to go as well, Batey would never of attacked Mossy if it had not been for Mossy being a complete arse, When dealing with problems like these you get rid of the root of problem and not the casualties. the end

One thing I agree club should have dealt with it before it even got onto YouTube.