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Flash wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 12:46 pm

nathan_rugby wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 10:04 am

the pieman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 8:28 am

Completely disagree, its a poor analagy in your eyes cos it doesnt fit the narrative, and also cut off the remainder of my comment which was a genuine question about coaching skills / development etc

Many people will move from one role into another, could be promotion, may not be

i did it myself as i have many interchangeable skills and the hiring manager saw that in me. I went from a people management role in logistics into a consultancy role implementing IT systems. Completely different, but certainly a promotion, so as above completely disagree with you

SoL i am pretty certain was coaching the academy and TL was also assistant with NZ, so again, your narrative doesnt fit

Is that all it takes to become an assistant at Wigan? A few years coaching an academy or a stint with NZ?

I could understand if we had a young coach with experienced assistants or visa versa but we only have young and inexperienced. It isn't black and white but where else do you see such inexperience / varied experience leading to success?

BTW Cunningham was assistant for a couple of years at St Helens and then promoted to first team, look how that turned out.

As was multi trophy winning Shaun Wane. As indeed was Craig Bellamy. You can't just cherry pick an example to fit your narrative.

He spent a long time in the academy and time served as assistant serving under Michael Maguire.

The question I am trying to answer is:

Do Tommy L and SOL have enough experience to warrant their assistant coach positions? Especially considering our head coach had 0 experience at the top level.

nathan_rugby wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 1:12 pm

Flash wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 12:46 pm

nathan_rugby wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 10:04 am

Is that all it takes to become an assistant at Wigan? A few years coaching an academy or a stint with NZ?

I could understand if we had a young coach with experienced assistants or visa versa but we only have young and inexperienced. It isn't black and white but where else do you see such inexperience / varied experience leading to success?

BTW Cunningham was assistant for a couple of years at St Helens and then promoted to first team, look how that turned out.

As was multi trophy winning Shaun Wane. As indeed was Craig Bellamy. You can't just cherry pick an example to fit your narrative.

He spent a long time in the academy and time served as assistant serving under Michael Maguire.

The question I am trying to answer is:

Do Tommy L and SOL have enough experience to warrant their assistant coach positions? Especially considering our head coach had 0 experience at the top level.

No they don't, time to start a fresh

nathan_rugby wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 1:12 pm

Flash wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 12:46 pm

nathan_rugby wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 10:04 am

Is that all it takes to become an assistant at Wigan? A few years coaching an academy or a stint with NZ?

I could understand if we had a young coach with experienced assistants or visa versa but we only have young and inexperienced. It isn't black and white but where else do you see such inexperience / varied experience leading to success?

BTW Cunningham was assistant for a couple of years at St Helens and then promoted to first team, look how that turned out.

As was multi trophy winning Shaun Wane. As indeed was Craig Bellamy. You can't just cherry pick an example to fit your narrative.

He spent a long time in the academy and time served as assistant serving under Michael Maguire.

The question I am trying to answer is:

Do Tommy L and SOL have enough experience to warrant their assistant coach positions? Especially considering our head coach had 0 experience at the top level.

Maguire wasnt exactly an experienced head coach, as he was brought in as a relative unknown / assistant in the NRL but we got lucky with him

So at the minute SoL has spent a few years as part of the academy coaching team whilst he was still playing and then naturally moved into an assistant role, and who knows, potentially head coach one day?

to counter back on your arguement about experience, how does anyone get experience whether that be coaching, assistant coaching, doing your day to day job etc etc. We all have to start somewhere, and at that point, there is a chance we may have little or zero experience. Wigan appear to have gone down the route of promoting from within and with SoL he gained his experience away from the 1st team with the academy teams. Are we saying that he cant be an assistant 1st team coach because he doesnt have 1st team experience, as no-one would ever become a 1st team assistant or coach in that case

nathan_rugby wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 1:12 pm

Flash wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 12:46 pm

nathan_rugby wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 10:04 am

Is that all it takes to become an assistant at Wigan? A few years coaching an academy or a stint with NZ?

I could understand if we had a young coach with experienced assistants or visa versa but we only have young and inexperienced. It isn't black and white but where else do you see such inexperience / varied experience leading to success?

BTW Cunningham was assistant for a couple of years at St Helens and then promoted to first team, look how that turned out.

As was multi trophy winning Shaun Wane. As indeed was Craig Bellamy. You can't just cherry pick an example to fit your narrative.

He spent a long time in the academy and time served as assistant serving under Michael Maguire.

The question I am trying to answer is:

Do Tommy L and SOL have enough experience to warrant their assistant coach positions? Especially considering our head coach had 0 experience at the top level.

Which is the same career path being followed by SOL. TL hasn't done the junior rugby but has served as assistant at international level so a slightly different career path but certainly an equivalent (if not better). Neither is head coach so your argument simply doesn't stand.

Whether they have enough experience is a moot point too. Did Shaun Wane have enough experience to be assistant to Maguire who, himself, had zero head coaching experience? History tells us he did.

The fact is it's about individuals and circumstances, not purely experience. Enough experience for one individual will not be enough for another. The individual who was deemed to have enough experience in one situation could be found wanting in another. There are a multitude of variations and proclaiming an absolute (as the less enlightened among us do..yes, I am looking at you Meds) is utterly ridiculous.

You're asking this question because we're doing badly. Answer me this; should we go on to win a trophy or two this season, would you still be asking the same question?

The proof of the pudding etc.... We'll see if they have enough experience at the end of the season. Until that point no one actually knows.

Flash wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:10 pm

nathan_rugby wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 1:12 pm

Flash wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 12:46 pm

As was multi trophy winning Shaun Wane. As indeed was Craig Bellamy. You can't just cherry pick an example to fit your narrative.

He spent a long time in the academy and time served as assistant serving under Michael Maguire.

The question I am trying to answer is:

Do Tommy L and SOL have enough experience to warrant their assistant coach positions? Especially considering our head coach had 0 experience at the top level.

Which is the same career path being followed by SOL. TL hasn't done the junior rugby but has served as assistant at international level so a slightly different career path but certainly an equivalent (if not better). Neither is head coach so your argument simply doesn't stand.

Whether they have enough experience is a moot point too. Did Shaun Wane have enough experience to be assistant to Maguire who, himself, had zero head coaching experience? History tells us he did.

The fact is it's about individuals and circumstances, not purely experience. Enough experience for one individual will not be enough for another. The individual who was deemed to have enough experience in one situation could be found wanting in another. There are a multitude of variations and proclaiming (as the less enlightened among us do..yes, I do mean you Meds) an absolute is utterly ridiculous.

You're asking this question because we're doing badly. Answer me this; should we go on to win a trophy or two this season, would you still be asking the same question?

The proof of the pudding etc.... We'll see if they have enough experience at the end of the season. Until that point no one actually knows.

When did Lockers have time to coach at junior level? he went straight into assistant coach when he retired, part time a few hours a week between matches and training is no good and if you think the 7 weeks or so that Tommy had with NZ is enough to qualify him as assistant Wigan coach then I am disappointed with you my old friend, I Rads really wants his mates as head coaches then put them in charge of the youngsters for a couple of seasons and then bring them through if they are good enough, Wigan should only have the best coaching staff available, not a group of old boys due to some strange obsession of Lenners and Rads.

medlocke wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:30 pm

Flash wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:10 pm

nathan_rugby wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 1:12 pm

He spent a long time in the academy and time served as assistant serving under Michael Maguire.

The question I am trying to answer is:

Do Tommy L and SOL have enough experience to warrant their assistant coach positions? Especially considering our head coach had 0 experience at the top level.

Which is the same career path being followed by SOL. TL hasn't done the junior rugby but has served as assistant at international level so a slightly different career path but certainly an equivalent (if not better). Neither is head coach so your argument simply doesn't stand.

Whether they have enough experience is a moot point too. Did Shaun Wane have enough experience to be assistant to Maguire who, himself, had zero head coaching experience? History tells us he did.

The fact is it's about individuals and circumstances, not purely experience. Enough experience for one individual will not be enough for another. The individual who was deemed to have enough experience in one situation could be found wanting in another. There are a multitude of variations and proclaiming (as the less enlightened among us do..yes, I do mean you Meds) an absolute is utterly ridiculous.

You're asking this question because we're doing badly. Answer me this; should we go on to win a trophy or two this season, would you still be asking the same question?

The proof of the pudding etc.... We'll see if they have enough experience at the end of the season. Until that point no one actually knows.

When did Lockers have time to coach at junior level? he went straight into assistant coach when he retired, part time a few hours a week between matches and training is no good and if you think the 7 weeks or so that Tommy had with NZ is enough to qualify him as assistant Wigan coach then I am disappointed with you my old friend, I Rads really wants his mates as head coaches then put them in charge of the youngsters for a couple of seasons and then bring them through if they are good enough, Wigan should only have the best coaching staff available, not a group of old boys due to some strange obsession of Lenners and Rads.

Lockers did his footwork with the academy that's for sure as for Tommy I have to agree with you

medlocke wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:30 pm

Flash wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:10 pm

nathan_rugby wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 1:12 pm

He spent a long time in the academy and time served as assistant serving under Michael Maguire.

The question I am trying to answer is:

Do Tommy L and SOL have enough experience to warrant their assistant coach positions? Especially considering our head coach had 0 experience at the top level.

Which is the same career path being followed by SOL. TL hasn't done the junior rugby but has served as assistant at international level so a slightly different career path but certainly an equivalent (if not better). Neither is head coach so your argument simply doesn't stand.

Whether they have enough experience is a moot point too. Did Shaun Wane have enough experience to be assistant to Maguire who, himself, had zero head coaching experience? History tells us he did.

The fact is it's about individuals and circumstances, not purely experience. Enough experience for one individual will not be enough for another. The individual who was deemed to have enough experience in one situation could be found wanting in another. There are a multitude of variations and proclaiming (as the less enlightened among us do..yes, I do mean you Meds) an absolute is utterly ridiculous.

You're asking this question because we're doing badly. Answer me this; should we go on to win a trophy or two this season, would you still be asking the same question?

The proof of the pudding etc.... We'll see if they have enough experience at the end of the season. Until that point no one actually knows.

When did Lockers have time to coach at junior level? he went straight into assistant coach when he retired, part time a few hours a week between matches and training is no good and if you think the 7 weeks or so that Tommy had with NZ is enough to qualify him as assistant Wigan coach then I am disappointed with you my old friend, I Rads really wants his mates as head coaches then put them in charge of the youngsters for a couple of seasons and then bring them through if they are good enough, Wigan should only have the best coaching staff available, not a group of old boys due to some strange obsession of Lenners and Rads.

He was assistant coach in the academy for several years while he was STILL PLAYING to enable him to get his coaching badges!

Now he has stopped playing you’re finding something else to disparage him for!

medlocke wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:30 pm

Flash wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:10 pm

nathan_rugby wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 1:12 pm

He spent a long time in the academy and time served as assistant serving under Michael Maguire.

The question I am trying to answer is:

Do Tommy L and SOL have enough experience to warrant their assistant coach positions? Especially considering our head coach had 0 experience at the top level.

Which is the same career path being followed by SOL. TL hasn't done the junior rugby but has served as assistant at international level so a slightly different career path but certainly an equivalent (if not better). Neither is head coach so your argument simply doesn't stand.

Whether they have enough experience is a moot point too. Did Shaun Wane have enough experience to be assistant to Maguire who, himself, had zero head coaching experience? History tells us he did.

The fact is it's about individuals and circumstances, not purely experience. Enough experience for one individual will not be enough for another. The individual who was deemed to have enough experience in one situation could be found wanting in another. There are a multitude of variations and proclaiming (as the less enlightened among us do..yes, I do mean you Meds) an absolute is utterly ridiculous.

You're asking this question because we're doing badly. Answer me this; should we go on to win a trophy or two this season, would you still be asking the same question?

The proof of the pudding etc.... We'll see if they have enough experience at the end of the season. Until that point no one actually knows.

When did Lockers have time to coach at junior level? he went straight into assistant coach when he retired, part time a few hours a week between matches and training is no good and if you think the 7 weeks or so that Tommy had with NZ is enough to qualify him as assistant Wigan coach then I am disappointed with you my old friend, I Rads really wants his mates as head coaches then put them in charge of the youngsters for a couple of seasons and then bring them through if they are good enough, Wigan should only have the best coaching staff available, not a group of old boys due to some strange obsession of Lenners and Rads.

He was assistant coach in the academy for several years while he was STILL PLAYING to enable him to get his coaching badges!

Now he has stopped playing you’re finding something else to disparage him for!

josie andrews wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 5:41 pm

medlocke wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:30 pm

Flash wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:10 pm

Which is the same career path being followed by SOL. TL hasn't done the junior rugby but has served as assistant at international level so a slightly different career path but certainly an equivalent (if not better). Neither is head coach so your argument simply doesn't stand.

Whether they have enough experience is a moot point too. Did Shaun Wane have enough experience to be assistant to Maguire who, himself, had zero head coaching experience? History tells us he did.

The fact is it's about individuals and circumstances, not purely experience. Enough experience for one individual will not be enough for another. The individual who was deemed to have enough experience in one situation could be found wanting in another. There are a multitude of variations and proclaiming (as the less enlightened among us do..yes, I do mean you Meds) an absolute is utterly ridiculous.

You're asking this question because we're doing badly. Answer me this; should we go on to win a trophy or two this season, would you still be asking the same question?

The proof of the pudding etc.... We'll see if they have enough experience at the end of the season. Until that point no one actually knows.

When did Lockers have time to coach at junior level? he went straight into assistant coach when he retired, part time a few hours a week between matches and training is no good and if you think the 7 weeks or so that Tommy had with NZ is enough to qualify him as assistant Wigan coach then I am disappointed with you my old friend, I Rads really wants his mates as head coaches then put them in charge of the youngsters for a couple of seasons and then bring them through if they are good enough, Wigan should only have the best coaching staff available, not a group of old boys due to some strange obsession of Lenners and Rads.

He was assistant coach in the academy for several years while he was STILL PLAYING to enable him to get his coaching badges!

Now he has stopped playing you’re finding something else to disparage him for!

No I'm not, if it turns out he is the best man for the job then so be it, I would just prefer assistants who have had several years learning the trade

Which he has Meds. He was training to be a coach & qualify for his badges while we were at Orrell for Academy games.

Anyway, this topic is supposed to be about Harry Smith not about Sol or Tommy’s coaching qualifications! Which I know you will say that it’s the coaching of Smith that we are discussing. Only Tommy qualifies as a possible kicking coach as Lockers is supposedly defensive coach.