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Why did you have to mention the worst signing in Wigan’s history.

keptinthedarkfans wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2024 4:54 pm

Charriots Offiah wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2024 3:34 pm

Firestarter wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2024 12:29 pm
Yep dean bell my choice also.The complete player

Dean wasn’t Australian.

Where did I say he was? I was answering best import signing.

That wasn’t the question posed!

morley pie eater wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2024 7:12 pm

Flash wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2024 11:37 am

The Yonner wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2024 9:16 am Kenny was a complete player, and would have been good as a fullback in the modern game too. I think his reputation was tarnished, however, by his final appearance in the Premiership semi-final at St Helens in the week after Wembley, when he clearly didnt want to be there and helped to ensure the team's defeat. Bit of a cardinal sin that.

Difficult to assess Barrett because he was playing in a poor team and consequently we didnt see him in a final.

Not difficult to put Bevan French right up there with them though.

I think there's more to being a complete player than ability. Attitude is just as important and I think Kenny could fall short in this regard. As you say, post Wembley being perhaps the most glaring example. I remember watching the NRL at that time when he and Sterling were in tandem for Paramatta and there was often a "which Kenny will turn up" narrative around the games so it wasn't just whilst at Wigan. He could be something of a reluctant defender too at times so I think your assertion of him being a great fullback isn't as cut and dried as you make it seem.

All the above makes it sound as though I didn't rate him which couldn't be further from the truth. Truly a match winner on his day, and he had plenty of those days! French for me though when it comes to Wigan. Simply done more over a longer period and his attitude and willingness to work can't be faulted. Let's put it this way...I doubt you'd ever see French doing a 'post Wembley Kenny' whilst wearing a Wigan shirt. It would go against everything he stands for.

Agreed. For me the idea of a complete player means complete in every aspect. Respect for fans and for the club is one category that Bevan excels at when it comes to imports.

I don't mind a great Aussie coming here for the $$$ as long as he performs, but I wouldn't put him in the "complete player" category unless he ticks other boxes like integrity. Kenny wouldn't make it onto my shortlist, but Tuigamala and Bevan certainly do.

You don’t play 17 times for Australia and 17 times in the State of Origin if you can’t play or defend.

Charriots Offiah wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 1:52 am

morley pie eater wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2024 7:12 pm

Flash wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2024 11:37 am

I think there's more to being a complete player than ability. Attitude is just as important and I think Kenny could fall short in this regard. As you say, post Wembley being perhaps the most glaring example. I remember watching the NRL at that time when he and Sterling were in tandem for Paramatta and there was often a "which Kenny will turn up" narrative around the games so it wasn't just whilst at Wigan. He could be something of a reluctant defender too at times so I think your assertion of him being a great fullback isn't as cut and dried as you make it seem.

All the above makes it sound as though I didn't rate him which couldn't be further from the truth. Truly a match winner on his day, and he had plenty of those days! French for me though when it comes to Wigan. Simply done more over a longer period and his attitude and willingness to work can't be faulted. Let's put it this way...I doubt you'd ever see French doing a 'post Wembley Kenny' whilst wearing a Wigan shirt. It would go against everything he stands for.

Agreed. For me the idea of a complete player means complete in every aspect. Respect for fans and for the club is one category that Bevan excels at when it comes to imports.

I don't mind a great Aussie coming here for the $$$ as long as he performs, but I wouldn't put him in the "complete player" category unless he ticks other boxes like integrity. Kenny wouldn't make it onto my shortlist, but Tuigamala and Bevan certainly do.

You don’t play 17 times for Australia and 17 times in the State of Origin if you can’t play or defend.

No one is saying he couldn't play or defend! Why do you keep posting what he did for Australia or SOO as if that impacts on what he did for Wigan? I'm sure he never threw a game for Australia or The Blues either but he certainly did for Wigan! There have been so many players in the British game who did this or that in the NRL or at international level who were simply awful over here. Some unbelievably so! You can't argue "well they were good in Australia so it proves they were good over here". That's just ridiculous.

And before you say it ..no, I'm not saying Kenny was awful over here. He was, for the most part, brilliant. However, he was awful post Wembley. That's simply a fact and something that he took tremendous stick for at the time. In the context of this thread, that's something that needs to be taken into consideration.

Flash wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 12:30 pm

Charriots Offiah wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 1:52 am

morley pie eater wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2024 7:12 pm

Agreed. For me the idea of a complete player means complete in every aspect. Respect for fans and for the club is one category that Bevan excels at when it comes to imports.

I don't mind a great Aussie coming here for the $$$ as long as he performs, but I wouldn't put him in the "complete player" category unless he ticks other boxes like integrity. Kenny wouldn't make it onto my shortlist, but Tuigamala and Bevan certainly do.

You don’t play 17 times for Australia and 17 times in the State of Origin if you can’t play or defend.

No one is saying he couldn't play or defend! Why do you keep posting what he did for Australia or SOO as if that impacts on what he did for Wigan? I'm sure he never threw a game for Australia or The Blues either but he certainly did for Wigan! There have been so many players in the British game who did this or that in the NRL or at international level who were simply awful over here. Some unbelievably so! You can't argue "well they were good in Australia so it proves they were good over here". That's just ridiculous.

And before you say it ..no, I'm not saying Kenny was awful over here. He was, for the most part, brilliant. However, he was awful post Wembley. That's simply a fact and something that he took tremendous stick for at the time. In the context of this thread, that's something that needs to be taken into consideration.

Quite simply because the question put was, 'Is he up there for the best Australian we’ve ever brought over to the club' It doesn't say which Australian player played best for Wigan or which Australian played well in more than one position, consequently I have given my opinion on who I think is the greatest Australian who has pulled the cherry and white shirt on. Brett Kenny, in my view, is one of the all time greats. Bevan has been absolutely fantastic for Wigan but his rugby career is not comparable with Kenny.

I am not sure what has to be taken into consideration or not.
Is the question is who was the best player - while playing for us - we have had at 6 (or as a utility who can play there), or which player has made the biggest contribution? If it is the first, I have to stick with my original answer: Brett Kenny was not just the greatest player across his career we have had playing 6 for us, he also hit heights that no other 6 touched while playing for us. He transformed a largely ordinary team into something special and his range of classic stand off skills is unmatched in my time watching the club.

If, however, the test is who has made the biggest contribution to the club then it has to be French for mine. Week after week, year after year he is brilliant. And that’s leaving aside Kenny’s disgraceful concession of the Saints match to fly home (which was a sickening thing to watch), which must go down as a huge black mark against him.

Leaving aside Kenny and Ella - who I thought had slightly less talent and of course led us to less significant achievements than Kenny - then French is the best overseas 6/utility I have seen in the interim. He creates more than Botica ever did and has far more of a running game than Barrett. And is an excitement machine.

I was talking to a Sydney based friend and he says a lot of the fans over there can see he is now a brilliant player, and accept he was vastly underestimated in Oz - they say as a result of a perception that he was simply not physically up to it (which of course applies to our other top class talent, Field).

This is of course all a bit of fun and a matter of opinion. We are all agreed that we are lucky to have Bevan in our side.

Charriots Offiah wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 5:08 pm

Flash wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 12:30 pm

Charriots Offiah wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 1:52 am

You don’t play 17 times for Australia and 17 times in the State of Origin if you can’t play or defend.

No one is saying he couldn't play or defend! Why do you keep posting what he did for Australia or SOO as if that impacts on what he did for Wigan? I'm sure he never threw a game for Australia or The Blues either but he certainly did for Wigan! There have been so many players in the British game who did this or that in the NRL or at international level who were simply awful over here. Some unbelievably so! You can't argue "well they were good in Australia so it proves they were good over here". That's just ridiculous.

And before you say it ..no, I'm not saying Kenny was awful over here. He was, for the most part, brilliant. However, he was awful post Wembley. That's simply a fact and something that he took tremendous stick for at the time. In the context of this thread, that's something that needs to be taken into consideration.

Quite simply because the question put was, 'Is he up there for the best Australian we’ve ever brought over to the club' It doesn't say which Australian player played best for Wigan or which Australian played well in more than one position, consequently I have given my opinion on who I think is the greatest Australian who has pulled the cherry and white shirt on. Brett Kenny, in my view, is one of the all time greats. Bevan has been absolutely fantastic for Wigan but his rugby career is not comparable with Kenny.

But Kenny's career outside of Wigan shouldn't have anything to do with the best Aussie at Wigan, the fact he spent so little time at Wigan for says he is not the best, While at Wigan did Kenny win as many trophies and accolades as Bevan, the answer is no, therefore Bevan is the greatest, being a persons favourite player does not make him the greatest. Ang katapusan

Charriots Offiah wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 5:08 pm

Flash wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 12:30 pm

Charriots Offiah wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 1:52 am

You don’t play 17 times for Australia and 17 times in the State of Origin if you can’t play or defend.

No one is saying he couldn't play or defend! Why do you keep posting what he did for Australia or SOO as if that impacts on what he did for Wigan? I'm sure he never threw a game for Australia or The Blues either but he certainly did for Wigan! There have been so many players in the British game who did this or that in the NRL or at international level who were simply awful over here. Some unbelievably so! You can't argue "well they were good in Australia so it proves they were good over here". That's just ridiculous.

And before you say it ..no, I'm not saying Kenny was awful over here. He was, for the most part, brilliant. However, he was awful post Wembley. That's simply a fact and something that he took tremendous stick for at the time. In the context of this thread, that's something that needs to be taken into consideration.

Quite simply because the question put was, 'Is he up there for the best Australian we’ve ever brought over to the club' It doesn't say which Australian player played best for Wigan or which Australian played well in more than one position, consequently I have given my opinion on who I think is the greatest Australian who has pulled the cherry and white shirt on. Brett Kenny, in my view, is one of the all time greats. Bevan has been absolutely fantastic for Wigan but his rugby career is not comparable with Kenny.

I think you're being pedantic there Chariots. If you're simply saying the 'best Australian' then he doesn't need to be a player and that would then be John Monie, so you're still wrong In fact, if you're saying best Australian it doesn't even need to have anything to do with ability because "best" could mean "nicest person" or any other measure you care to apply.

"Best for Wigan" was implied in the statement otherwise it has no point of reference.

medlocke wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 5:20 pm

Charriots Offiah wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 5:08 pm

Flash wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 12:30 pm

No one is saying he couldn't play or defend! Why do you keep posting what he did for Australia or SOO as if that impacts on what he did for Wigan? I'm sure he never threw a game for Australia or The Blues either but he certainly did for Wigan! There have been so many players in the British game who did this or that in the NRL or at international level who were simply awful over here. Some unbelievably so! You can't argue "well they were good in Australia so it proves they were good over here". That's just ridiculous.

And before you say it ..no, I'm not saying Kenny was awful over here. He was, for the most part, brilliant. However, he was awful post Wembley. That's simply a fact and something that he took tremendous stick for at the time. In the context of this thread, that's something that needs to be taken into consideration.

Quite simply because the question put was, 'Is he up there for the best Australian we’ve ever brought over to the club' It doesn't say which Australian player played best for Wigan or which Australian played well in more than one position, consequently I have given my opinion on who I think is the greatest Australian who has pulled the cherry and white shirt on. Brett Kenny, in my view, is one of the all time greats. Bevan has been absolutely fantastic for Wigan but his rugby career is not comparable with Kenny.

But Kenny's career outside of Wigan shouldn't have anything to do with the best Aussie at Wigan, the fact he spent so little time at Wigan for says he is not the best, While at Wigan did Kenny win as many trophies and accolades as Bevan, the answer is no, therefore Bevan is the greatest, being a persons favourite player does not make him the greatest. Ang katapusan

Indeed Meds.

La fin

Depends how you define "best".

In terms of all round absolute rugby league, irrespective of era, I would argue that Trent Barrett was the "best" we had.