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We will never know the extent to which the coach/players are to blame when things go well/badly. There were some very low points this year, so bad that anyone could watch the Huddersfield game and, far worse to my mind, the Cardiff game and conclude that Noble was a bad coach.
I am inclined to be upbeat generally and particularly after the last 3 weeks. If we beat Leeds on Friday then we will have done well against each of the other top teams. Saturday was as good and fluent a performance as I have seen for a long time from us and holds immense promise for the future, though accepting that we will need to adjust to life after TB.
I would argue that 5 key things have changed -
1 - TB has got his act together. Nothing that Noble could have done to make him play well when he had the uncertainty about coming or going dragging him down. He can't make TB's wife happy. I think IL's dressing down and the realisation that he has nothing to lose and everything to gain have lead to his resurgence.
2 - Smith's arrival. I am prepared to give Noble credit for going after him and using him well, thereby at a stroke solving the round pegs/square holes problem we had with trying to get Higham and Lulu dictate play with precious little help from lockers and TB. While he won't make breaks unless we get him fit again, neither did Gregory, and teams benefited from his vision and passing.
3 - Tomkins for Lockers. Lockers will be a world class 12, and the perfect foil to Hock at 11, but Tomkins has better hands, can make a break and is a more natural footballer (his hands for TB's first try, his break for TB's second and his hands for the last try were the actions of a class player). This happened because of a sad injury, but Noble still identified the right player and stuck with it, while many of here wanted TB to play 13. credit to Noble.
4 - Feca getting fit. You could argue that Noble should have got him fitter 18 months ago, but it is entirely possible that they couldn't do much with him until his court case was over. Neither a plus nor a minus for Noble.
5 - Hock's form. He has been as good as he can be in the last 2 games, and I put his new found judgement and discipline to Noble's coaching and man management.
That is the reasoning behind my conclusion that Noble comes out of this year in slight credit even if we lose against Leeds, and heavily in credit if we beat them.
I would be interested in reading the counter-argument, though it may amount to "look how bad we were in games against Hudds and Saints - he can't be good because he coached those teams - things are going better now because the players are coaching themselves".

EW An excellent well balanced post!

gw wrote:So basically what some people on here are saying, when we where playing terrible it was nobles fault, now we've started playing its all down to the players and Noble has had no influence on that.

IMO if Noble was so good why have we not being playing good all season not just come good at the end of the season same coaching method all season he only has one plan .
As to players yes i would say that it is down to some of the players regaining form and the return of Hock .
Barratt, Fielden ,Higham and even Calderwood has had more passes to him in the last 3 games than he has all season. Phelps and Smith late inclusions into the team now gelling together and the form of Tomkins[who would not have even been considered in Nobles team only through the injury to Lockers]and the rest of the team gaining confidence.

platt-warrior wrote:He cant he's banned

wait a minute so am i

Re Hock. His form has nothing to do with any coach. Rightly or wrongly he is a law unto himself and plays exactly as he sees it. Mind you I read the biggest load of poop ever this week by Danny Lockwood in the Leaguer.

I do think the suspension gave Hock time to sort his niggling ankle injury.

cpwigan wrote:Re Hock. His form has nothing to do with any coach. Rightly or wrongly he is a law unto himself and plays exactly as he sees it. Mind you I read the biggest load of poop ever this week by Danny Lockwood in the Leaguer.

I do think the suspension gave Hock time to sort his niggling ankle injury.

I must disagree with you here my friend. Noble has been working on Hocks game and movement regarding backing up. They have also been working on him when to off load and when not too, with the main area of not off loading in his own half. Something he tried to do against the Cats.

Wigan Watcher wrote:

cpwigan wrote:Re Hock. His form has nothing to do with any coach. Rightly or wrongly he is a law unto himself and plays exactly as he sees it. Mind you I read the biggest load of poop ever this week by Danny Lockwood in the Leaguer.

I do think the suspension gave Hock time to sort his niggling ankle injury.

I must disagree with you here my friend. Noble has been working on Hocks game and movement regarding backing up. They have also been working on him when to off load and when not too, with the main area of not off loading in his own half. Something he tried to do against the Cats.

Trust me. You can say what you want to Hocky and he will make the right gestures to the coaching staff etc. He is not disrespectful to any coach. However, once he is out there he does exactly what he wants and that came from the horses mouth. He must give Noble a heart attack.

cpwigan wrote:

Wigan Watcher wrote:

cpwigan wrote:Re Hock. His form has nothing to do with any coach. Rightly or wrongly he is a law unto himself and plays exactly as he sees it. Mind you I read the biggest load of poop ever this week by Danny Lockwood in the Leaguer.

I do think the suspension gave Hock time to sort his niggling ankle injury.

I must disagree with you here my friend. Noble has been working on Hocks game and movement regarding backing up. They have also been working on him when to off load and when not too, with the main area of not off loading in his own half. Something he tried to do against the Cats.

Trust me. You can say what you want to Hocky and he will make the right gestures to the coaching staff etc. He is not disrespectful to any coach. However, once he is out there he does exactly what he wants and that came from the horses mouth. He must give Noble a heart attack.

I know what you are saying, he is not the sharpest tool in the box but he does listen sometimes.

Just a thought. I wonder how many Stains fans were calling for Daniel Andersons head on the 6th April following defeats by Hull KR, Cats, Leeds, Huddersfield and Cas??

First of all the players have bucked their ideas up and look half decent . This does not excuse some of the lacklustre performances we have had to endure ..... the coach may not be totally to blame but if a rift or some off field troubles are the reason he should have sorted it His response after a bad result seemed to drop Goulding or Calders if trouble was the reason why not the players causing it ? a simple dropped for disciplinary reasons would have done .
If no problems existed then it still falls somewhat at his door ..... when Saints visited earlier in the year the first 20 mins I lost who was carrying the ball they had dummy runners two or three players supporting the ball carrier, our problem we had none a posse awaited our props and it was so easy to spot who was taking the ball up (Fieldens lack of form?)leading to no go forward no broken play and nothing for the half backs to play off .
I think a little of both is to blame both players and coach also the turmoil at the club off the field can not have helped they have just about regained my favour but I was getting sick of the dull dire play and that was on a good day !!
It has been a pleasure to watch a great naturally gifted stand-off , he could drag us to victory's if given the support has he's proved in the last few weeks , the addition of Smith gives him more room we are much more of a threat with Smith Lulu n Baz on at the same time although weaker defensively .
Micky H game as improved over the back end of the season (much like D Orrs did at the end of his contract) unfortunately two and a bit seasons too late if only he had been utilized well from the start.
Feka is back to his best and if Hock can keep his cool he has the talent to trouble any team .
The best thing for me the emergence of Tomkins whether Nobby would have given him chance is debatable (not I think) the fact is he has now staked a very strong case for the 13 shirt with moments of real quality is a massive bonus our back row should be sorted now for a good few years .
Nobby came in and whether you think he saved us from relegation or not he will be associated with the great escape .
I'm still not convinced on how good he is but the club was in a run down poor state off the field he can not be lamed for that these problems stupid contracts ect may well be as much to blame .
I will always support my team I have never left early nor Booed but I can understand those that have this season!!
I except losing it's part of the game the way you lose is what's important and both the way we have played and lost this year has been unacceptable .
I'm not being negative but it will take more than two play off victory's to gloss over the cracks .


















A 50 point victory in the GF against Saints would though !!!!