Amos Roberts

[DaveO]

I'm afraid I disagree with both Josie and DaveO,not only are we getting IMO an excellent experienced player but also a good utility player.Signing a player for the sake of it ,is not the IL way IMO.

Well the quota Aussie has gone away since the RFL changed the rules this week but I am still not in favour of this signing for a number of reasons. First of all we let a younger British winger go so despite the quota issue going away that still is not a good thing IMO.

However more serious is this when you look at the likely back line which IMO will be:

Mathers, Roberts, Pryce, Carmont, Richards.

Notice anything about it? Not one Wigan produced player in that line up.

I think that is a joke and we may as well stop going on about our great youth set up from this point on.

If Roberts is contracted for four years then with Richards contracted for three then Ainscough may as well leave the club now. Noble will select that back line at every opportunity IMO.

That means Ainscough won't get a meaningful run out and what future is there for him and Goulding at Wigan now?

And if there are any injuries I expect Noble will pick Phelps!

Have people completely missed the fact we seem to be freezing out the junior players by signing a player of age 28 on a four year deal? Once Calders went there was the opportunity for Ainscough to step up. Not now its been taken away for a LONG time.
Dave

Not necessarily.

This is what you fear may happen, assuming everyone stays fit, stays on form, etc. There's no guarantee it actually WILL happen, in fact it's unlikely to happen given that not everyone will stay fit and that slots will inevitably become available.

You are assuming Noble will change his habit of picking established players out of position rather than give the younger players a chance.

Dave, on one hand you're always calling for the club to sign better players. And on the other, when we do - like on this occasion - you decry it, saying that it won't give the unproved youngsters a chance.

I was saying BEFORE we signed Roberts and BEFORE it was even a rumour I was not in favour of signing an overseas player on the wing. This is not new from me.

I have augured we a need a prop before a winger I think we do (or should that be did?).

I am also realistic enough to know that if we sign a prop of any ability then that will most likely be an overseas player but I don't think that is as bad a deal for Prescott and O'Carroll as they could be rotated and I'd expect Coley to miss out if anyone. I am starting to think we won't sign a prop now anf will go with what we have anyway.

These contradictory opinions are not atypical of certain types of curmudgeonly Wigan fan. But I'm baffled. Which is it you actually want to see: the recruitment of quality players to Wigan, or a policy of giving the kids a chance at the expense of this?

I think my opinions on this have been consistent throughout. Once Calders went I have been saying we didn't need to sign another winger, not with Pryce to step up as well. That would still have left Ainscough waiting for his opportunity as I would have expected a back line of Pryce, Goulding/Phelps, Carmont & Richards with Mathers at full back.

Ainscough is now even further down the pecking order.

I also think anyone who suggests Noble will change his habit of sticking with his favoured players when injuries occur is being extremely optimistic. On what evidence is such an opinion based? Not what went on last season that is for sure.

And if anyone says J Tomkins we all know were it not for Lockers injury he'd have never got the games he did.

Dave

[shawcross da warrior]

we deffinatly have enough second rowers so i agree dont want any more to arrive for atleast another 5 years, to allow the guys coming through and the current power houses enough time to develop...

not sure about letting bailey go after 2009 he is a fantastic talker and defender, so would be a loss in my opinion...

BUT, if our current crop develop strongly over this next year it may not leave a big hole....

[DaveO]

If Pryce comes through. Still a big IF. Nobody can say IMO. Mathers may become surplus to requirement.

I think Mathers will be given every opportunity to succeed by Noble (which in a way isn't a bad thing on an individual level for Mathers).

I was saying all last season Mathers would get a new deal even when he was playing badly. He got the new deal.

I think you will have to wait a long time to see Mathers forced out thus moving the younger players that step closer to the first team.

Dave

[Big Steve]

Dave,

you have to remember that a squad is more than 17 players. We need back up across the park to cover for injuries,loss of form and competition for places.

Tomkins probably did play more than Noble expected, but I bet he was expecting him to play a decent number of games last year.

I mean - who would have thought some of our back row forwards would have been injured or suspended last year ??????? I bet it won't happen next year

Signing of Roberts gives us cover across a number of positions in the backs, real pace in the team and most importantly competition for full back.

The only signing i would really question is that of Phelps, who I think did a good job covering for an out of form (and some times ill) Goulding, but should probably not have been re-signed as we are expecting to have Pryce starting next season and ideally would like to see Goulding re-establish himself.

[cpwigan]

Difficult to say Dave. In 2008 Noble could always argue he had few options. In 2009 I do not think he has that argument. We know Noble like all things big so if fit he is going to go with Pryce in his starting XIII. Roberts is tallish and Noble tends to play his imports readily from the start.Pryce for me is a left centre/winger. He is never going to play left centre if George is fit. That leaves him as a left winger. Pat to? Fullback, Right winger? I am not a huge Phelps fan but should he not get a FB opportunity?

From the outside backs. Pat, George and Roberts will IMO be picked week in week out. If fit Pryce will get that treatment as well. So it only leaves 1 place each week for Ainscough, Goulding, Mathers, Phelps to fight over. The best scenario for Mathers is if Noble sees Pryce as a right centre and keeps Pat on the left wing.

Re Coley. I believe you are wrong. Not for judgement reasons but that Noble will always prefer Coley over Prescott and O'Carroll.

We are both basing our arguments on the same philosophy just different players lol

[cpwigan]

Re Roberts and I have not researched this but my recollection is that he rarely gets injured which is great. Hope I have not jinxed him.

[MrDave]

Not that please with the Amos Roberts signing, it might change by mind if he plays really well for Wigan but I can't really see what he has that Calderwood didn't.

Roberts apparently has a very good try scoring record, as did Calderwood when he signed for Wigan. Both Calderwood and Roberts are quite fast, they are both the same height but Amos is a stone heavier and a year older.

Part of the reason Calderwood was not re-signed was because he was on a big contract but by the sounds of things Roberts is on a big contract as well.

So what have Wigan actually got with Amos Roberts, well they have basically traded an England international in Calderwood who has proved in the past he can be one of the best wingers in Super League for a money grabbing Australian :conf:

[Cruncher]

Not that please with the Amos Roberts signing, it might change by mind if he plays really well for Wigan but I can't really see what he has that Calderwood didn't.

Roberts apparently has a very good try scoring record, as did Calderwood when he signed for Wigan. Both Calderwood and Roberts are quite fast, they are both the same height but Amos is a stone heavier and a year older.

Part of the reason Calderwood was not re-signed was because he was on a big contract but by the sounds of things Roberts is on a big contract as well.

So what have Wigan actually got with Amos Roberts, well they have basically traded an England international in Calderwood who has proved in the past he can be one of the best wingers in Super League for a money grabbing Australian :conf:

I don't know where you've got the first bit from. We don't even know if he's signed yet, so it's pure guesswork about what kind of contract he's on, (and, I'd argue, guesswork prejudiced to suit your argument - because a big contract now would fly in the face of everything IL has done at Wigan so far).

The second bit doesn't take into account Calderwood's problematic situation with Noble. They didn't get on - to the point where Noble didn't want to play him and Caldwerwood didn't want to play. Not a minor problem, if you think about it - as proved by his indifferent form for most of the time he was with us.

[cpwigan]

Not sure describing Roberts as a money grabber is fair.

Roberts v Calders. Roberts can play centre and wing.

The big issue re Wigan RLFC in recent years has been the lack of opportunities ANY winger gets through team play. I think that dates back as far as Dallas and Richards whereby unless you could scoot and create your own opening or catch high crossfield kicks you were unlikely to score many tries. There is an argument that the game has changed but I believe otherwise.

[MrDave]

I don't know where you've got the first bit from. We don't even know if he's signed yet, so it's pure guesswork about what kind of contract he's on, (and, I'd argue, guesswork prejudiced to suit your argument - because a big contract now would fly in the face of everything IL has done at Wigan so far).

All estimations on contracts are guess work, Lenagan might have signed a few players at the end of last season for not a lot but they are probably not playing for peanuts this season, Phelps, Smith and Carmont all have improved contracts for next season, for how much we don't know so it is hard say what IL has done at Wigan so far.

I don't think Roberts is going to move to Wigan on much less than what he was on in the NRL and from what I've read that was a fair bit. Would be interesting to compare Roberts contract with Calderwoods at Hull FC.