Re: All Credit To Brian Noble

DaveO · Post by **DaveO** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:15 pm

highland convert wrote:
HC wrote:
DaveO wrote: 1. For three seasons running we have had poor starts to the season and the evidence shows the teams that are consistent and play well all season end up at the top of the league and they are the ones who win the GF. The notion of peaking at the right time is a myth as evidenced by the facts as to which teams have actually won the competition.

And three years running we have had different key players or players coming through. Injuries and suspensions also played a major role. Name the teams that have been consistant throughout the season. We were virtually a new team this season with players gone and new players in the playmaking role. Other teams hit the ground running and we did not cope. We played as well as we were allowed to. Now we are better. Sam has played a vital role since he emerged yes but Smith was also showing why we brought him over. Riddell who had so much flak also shows why we needed him. Lockers really stepped up to the plate. MM was there alredy even if as understudy, When the knives were out for Noble he stuck by his guns and now we are reaping the benifit.
Why are we different then all the other teams? You would think every team in the league had no injuries, played the same team each year and so on. We had no injury crisis at the start of this season yet played poorly. Noble has no excuse for that. Ironically we have picked up more consistency without Hock, Lockers and MM. It is Nobles job to coach the team in front of him and over the past three years there has not been any major upheaval until the Hock saga that required a major re-jigging of the team or whatever mid season.

Over the past three years the fact of the matter is we have not made any improvement and other teams have. That is the bottom line. You can make up any excuse you like but the buck for that stops with Noble.

2. His selection policy which remains pick the established players if fit regardless of form. This is actually my biggest criticism of him and I fear if he gets a new deal of any length he will be severely detrimental to the prospects and development of our younger players who he will never pick unless forced into it. I am not suggesting we pick the entire junior side or go for an all Wigan produced team. Far from it but his selection policy is downright poor.
Why he is the one working with the players. He is the one reading the results from the physios, He is the one that sees them week in week out in the training park. The idea of dump them and replace is not an option of the players are coming through. The established players had to earn the right to be there. Again Noble stuck to it and the team emerged.
Not this pointless argument again! He is a coach so must be right and we are all wrong. As CPW said did you use the same argument in support of Millward? Where you around when Dorahay was here? Or Goodway? All poor coaches so would you have said the same thing about them?

As to the players earning the right it is patently not the case. Riddell and Roberts walked into the team and have stayed there no matter how they play. Fielden is a shadow of the player he once was but is never dropped.

The only players who ever get dropped 99% of the time the young players and that is not an opinion but a fact. The only senior players dropped this season have been Coley one game and Smith.

3. He doesn't seem to actually coach the side. Our players have faults and these never seem to get addressed. It could be lack of fitness, poor ball retention, giving too many penalties away or whatever but they don't seem to get any coaching to improve on these aspects. They still do it and we end up with inconsistent results across the season.
Every match is different. Every ref is different. Ganson would penalise for a ball steal, Silverwood would not recognise one if it happened in front of his face. You cannot fault Noble for player error on the field. Salford beat stains, Celtic beat us. It happens. The only teams that beat us the last two seasons was the front runners. The cup defeat against Cats, Johns admitted they had saved the players for the match because they had no fear of religation. Noble has had his problems but he has worked through them.
Can you point me to anything relevant to the point I made in your reply above because I can't find anything? Blaming the refs! Give over.

Of course you can fault Noble for player error on the field if players keep making the same errors. It is his job to improve the players and the team by reducing the errors and correcting the faults. Riddell is overweight, Feka is overweight and so is Pryce. He has done nothing about it.

There again I still think Barrett was a liability that undermined Noble, so what do I know,
Jim
That opinion remains one of the classics on this message board and always will!

Dave

cpwigan · Post by **cpwigan** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:48 pm

Slightly off tangent. I do not think Brian Noble cares what fans think of him. He is far too experienced and confident in his own ability to be remotely concerned by fans's opinions. However, do the pro Noble fans not think the more important question is, could/would Noble want to continue working with IL given events in recent months?

ian b · Post by **ian b** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:01 pm

Panchitta Marra wrote:
ian b wrote:Brian Noble is the most successful coach in superleague and with that in mind the optimist in me says he can make wigan great again.No one can seriously believe he is solely responsible for how bad we have been.The stains team took years to make and when they found the right balance they were virtualy unstoppable.I get as frustrated as anybody on here but i feel we have changed coaches to readily in the past and i dont think that helps any team.
Maybe a change of coach at this time of the season is not a good thing.
My concern is that Noble inherited an extremely successful team from Brian Smith & Mathew Elliot.
He just continued on with their success, having the best of players to choose from.
He wasnt blessed with that calibre of team when he came to Wigan, and to me it shows.
Some of his team selections have been strange to say the least, especially earlier on in the season.
A genuine coach would not pick his buddies ahead of better performing players, or suddenly change his team selections just because senior players spit the dummy out at not being picked.
Success of a club is deemed on the silverware the team collects.
As yet, we have none under Noble.
Lets hope it all changes by the season end.
I am still on the fence.

The last 2 or 3 coaches have only had to tweek what is a well oiled engine at stains (as much as i hate to say it !!)and yes Noble was in the same position at Bradford,but i still believe the problems have been more deep rooted and blaming the coach i think is out of order.The team selections have been odd at times but maybe you have to tinker about to find the right balance?.

cpwigan · Post by **cpwigan** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:09 pm

Whatever happens at Wigan RLFC, should Brian Noble not be the coach I do not think he will have to wait very long whatsoever for a new job.

old hooker · Post by **old hooker** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:10 pm

Brian Noble is the most successful coach in SL,and i believe he is as good as any other coach in SL.In no way is he responsible solely for some of the poor displays that have been staged this year,as imo we have 5 or 6 players who should not even be at the club as they are simply not good enough.However Nobby is not in the same class as the majority of Coaches down under and we should replace him when we get the right person and not before just for the sake of it.

DaveO · Post by **DaveO** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:11 pm

cpwigan wrote:Slightly off tangent. I do not think Brian Noble cares what fans think of him. He is far too experienced and confident in his own ability to be remotely concerned by fans's opinions.

Well they do say if you are a coach and listen to fans opinions then you soon end up as a fan and not a coach anymore yourself!

I wonder if he listens to our biggest fan, IL?

However, do the pro Noble fans not think the more important question is, could/would Noble want to continue working with IL given events in recent months?

Every time the fact Noble's position is mentioned in the press as being undecided it is mentioned his job has been offered elsewhere.

Everyone knows this to be the case including Noble who has said as much.

I think given what has gone on the problem isn't with what Noble does though I suspect you think he should walk away but the real problem is IL is not showing the courage of his convictions. By this I mean if he decided he wanted a new coach then he does not want Noble so should not be renewing a contract of a man he has made plain he would like to replace.

The idea he should not do that if he can't find anyone else first does not fly. There will be no shortage of candidates. Once it became clear IL was looking to replace Noble that was when IL should have informed him this was his last season. IL made the decision Noble wasn't good enough so that ought to be the end of Noble's career here. Find the replacement is a different task.

Dave

GeoffN · Post by **GeoffN** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:12 pm

ian b wrote:
Panchitta Marra wrote:
ian b wrote:Brian Noble is the most successful coach in superleague and with that in mind the optimist in me says he can make wigan great again.No one can seriously believe he is solely responsible for how bad we have been.The stains team took years to make and when they found the right balance they were virtualy unstoppable.I get as frustrated as anybody on here but i feel we have changed coaches to readily in the past and i dont think that helps any team.
Maybe a change of coach at this time of the season is not a good thing.
My concern is that Noble inherited an extremely successful team from Brian Smith & Mathew Elliot.
He just continued on with their success, having the best of players to choose from.
He wasnt blessed with that calibre of team when he came to Wigan, and to me it shows.
Some of his team selections have been strange to say the least, especially earlier on in the season.
A genuine coach would not pick his buddies ahead of better performing players, or suddenly change his team selections just because senior players spit the dummy out at not being picked.
Success of a club is deemed on the silverware the team collects.
As yet, we have none under Noble.
Lets hope it all changes by the season end.
I am still on the fence.
The last 2 or 3 coaches have only had to tweek what is a well oiled engine at stains (as much as i hate to say it !!)and yes Noble was in the same position at Bradford,but i still believe the problems have been more deep rooted and blaming the coach i think is out of order.The team selections have been odd at times but maybe you have to tinker about to find the right balance?.

But what about tinkering to spoil any balance that had started to apper? Why, for example, did he drop Sam T for the HKR game that we lost, after we'd just won 4 straight with Sam in the side?

LKC29 · Post by **LKC29** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:21 pm

Like or loathe Noble you have to admitt that come the business end of the season he does seem to have the formula to get us playing well, as demonstrated in all his previous seasons.

cpwigan · Post by **cpwigan** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:24 pm

I cannot remember if it was you Dave or Ddtttf that created a thread saying that although they were not pro Noble they felt he had been treated badly. I think whether somebody is pro or anti Noble we can all agree the whole saga has not been handled as well as it could have been and has fuelled the media providing them with very easy copy. It may well continue when a decision is announced.

I think your courage of conviction argument is a very strong one Dave and you are right, I think Brian Noble is fairly secure financially and when you are in that position you can afford to have principles and stand by them. I am anything but pro Noble but he must be hurt or angry or something. I think I am fairly certain that unlike many coaches he has never been sacked etc. I think the worst thing that has happened to him is going to play in Australia for Cronulla and often being in the reserve grade. As a player and a coach he has had a very comfortable career compared to most if not all present day coaches.

the-Bowtun-Warrior · Post by **the-Bowtun-Warrior** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:30 pm

TWO EYED WARRIOR wrote:Quote ex wigan player Richie mathers on Tony Smith

"Its nice to be coached again"

that is actually my favourite quote of the season so far!
sums it up in one!