Karl Pryce

[cpwigan]

Very true tony. I cannot remember such an enjoyable and positive looking season as this for a long time. 2002ish perhaps.

[ancientnloyal]

I think the only thoughts KP will be bothered about is that of Maguire, Wane and Bitcom primarily. The talk about Pryce in this thread IMO mirrors that of what we say about Feka, in that we'd love to see him play more which brings in fitness... the underlying message it seems is that we'd love to see Pryce get involved more.

[Dobby]

After reading the Pryce thread on the other forum I still cant believe how some peoples perceptions are clouded by his walk in tries. There are definitely a lot more sensible posts on the subject on here.

If Goulding had been on the left wing for the last 4 games and Pryce on the right then it is fairly safe to say that Goulding would have scored 8 tries and Pryce 2 in those games. All of the tries that the wingers scored in these games were walk-ins and the wingers had to do little. If all aspects of their games had remained the same, other than this try scoring, then there is no way that some people would be praising Pryce as much as they are, nor be criticising Goulding as much as they are. Indeed it would be completely reversed.

As it is Goulding has played outside of Marsh in 2 games and has barely got a pass off Gleeson in the other 2 games where as Pryce has had 8 tries laid on a plate for him. Based on this they now want Goulding dropped, despite how he has played all season, and instead want Pryce to retain his place on the back of these tries in 4 easy games against fairly poor teams, where he did very little else.

[ancientnloyal]

To be fair Maguire has said that they have studied and done their homework on Crusaders and specifically targetted Thomas' wing and the results showed. Pryce's job was to catch and not knock on for 4 points - which he did very well... just that when the ball isnt/wasn't on his side he goes inside more looking for it.


I think Wigan have changed tactics slightly due to the loss of amos and the hotter weather - and still we are winning

[gpartin]

Pryce's positioning is dire at times and its inexcusable, he's not some young lad who's learning, he's played the game for years. It may seem harsh but as with Ainy some people judge players on a tries scored to tries conceded ratio. I'm judging based on what they're like against teams who rarely have hat-tricks scored against them and are good at exploiting weaknesses on the wing either by creating an overlap or by kicking to the corner on the last. In terms of dealing with kicks wingers tend to be under far more pressure than fullbacks for example so you need someone who is confident under the high ball in traffic, and with the number of cut-out passes in the game you need a winger who will make a quick decision and hit the opposition hard, decisively and consistently so they think twice about attacking your wing again. Said to CP earlier it maybe KP's demeanour but he doesn't seem half as intimidating as a bloke his size would, he often gets caught out by taking the wrong man and he's hardly likely to catch the ball from a kick and run the length of the field. It maybe that there's another position he could play well, can't think of one to be fair but to me he's not a winger, just as, in my opinion amos is not a winger. If KP could look more interested he would probably do far better but to me he still looks like he's suffering from S.A.D. If I'm being harsh supposedly then so be it but I wouldn't want him anywhere near the team in a match such as Leeds in the cup or Saints/Wire in the playoffs. Because our attack is so good at the moment we've been able to get away with having him in but doubt too many fans would have him in if we didn't have injuries.

[DaveO]

After reading the Pryce thread on the other forum I still cant believe how some peoples perceptions are clouded by his walk in tries. There are definitely a lot more sensible posts on the subject on here.

There is a notion over there that because he has scored 8 tries he is the form back. I find this raw application of statistics just plain wrong because it ignores the things you pointed out in the rest of your post.

There is also the notion that he has overtaken Goulding based on the performances over the last four games and here it is not the tries scored that is used to back up those arguments but that his wing has only let one in. This is another application of raw statistics that is wrong because four games is not enough to conclude such a thing and that is before you factor in Goulding playing outside Marsh for two of them etc.

It also ignores who we played in those four games which includes Widnes, Crusaders (two poor teams) and Hudds running into a bit of poor form.

So to conclude Pryce is the form back and/or has overtaken Goulding off those four games is at best premature in my opinion. More games will be required against better opposition for us to get a true impression of the progress Pryce has made.

Now before someone says "get off Pryce's back" none of the above is slagging him off. It is simply not exaggerating things.

Dave

[Dobby]

There is a notion over there that because he has scored 8 tries he is the form back. I find this raw application of statistics just plain wrong because it ignores the things you pointed out in the rest of your post.

There is also the notion that he has overtaken Goulding based on the performances over the last four games and here it is not the tries scored that is used to back up those arguments but that his wing has only let one in. This is another application of raw statistics that is wrong because four games is not enough to conclude such a thing and that is before you factor in Goulding playing outside Marsh for two of them etc.

It also ignores who we played in those four games which includes Widnes, Crusaders (two poor teams) and Hudds running into a bit of poor form.

So to conclude Pryce is the form back and/or has overtaken Goulding off those four games is at best premature in my opinion. More games will be required against better opposition for us to get a true impression of the progress Pryce has made.

Now before someone says "get off Pryce's back" none of the above is slagging him off. It is simply not exaggerating things.

Dave

I agree.

Another thing that I find interesting is how some of the Ainscough haters are so fond of Pryce. As you know I am no fan of Ainscough (I have explained why do dont need to go there - dont want another 8 page thread ) but one of my arguments was always that the tries he scored last season did not really matter. This was because I was of the belief that many of these would have been scored by any winger and it was his overall game that I was more interested in, which I wasnt a fan of. As a result I was of the belief that any out of the ordinary try scoring ability (which I dont believe he had but some did)did not compensate for his weaknesses in other areas. Others had a similar opinion but with some of these this seems to go out of the window with Pryce and try scoring is all that matters.

[Wigan_forever1985]

Form and performances are all relative to the player. You cant simply measure a players form on the amount of tries they score.

Having said that, even walk in tries need scoring, but the fact he scored them makes him compitent at best.

Its very difficult to gauge performances in a team thats winning (unless they have a real shocker) because your tempted to believe that if it aint broke dont fix it.

You have to image how the player would do if he wasn't given the walk ins, would they be able to create the oppurtunities and provide real realiability in defence.

Its easy to look good in a team thats playing well, am i convinced Pryce could be counted on in a big crunch match......no im not, but to be fair i guess we wont know till he is put in that situation the only problem with that is by that time it will be too late

[cpwigan]

What worrys me is some fans obsession with size Sure big players offer a positive but they also offer negatives too. Likewise small players. Some fans seem obsessed with the idea of Pat and Pryce, forgetting that Pryce is better on the left but also not looking at the whole picture. Take the forwards. Lockers is not mssive but his agility, ability to get around the pitch, speed etc eliminates the holes that the big forwards naturally leave. A team is IMO about balance. Most fans seem to ignore the TEAM part and the idea of balance.

Circumstances meant Prycey got to play against the Crusaders. Had something not happened, he would not have played. He did and fair play to him BUT that is the reality he is a squad player filling in and doing OK.

[BriH]

I have seen all the great wingers from Brian Bevan, Billy Boston, etc. etc.
I recently watched highlights of the Wigan vs Leeds where Martin Offiah bagged 10 tries! Some of these tries where "walk-ins".
My point, ultimately, is that it's a wingers job to score tries.
Brian Bevan (796 + 30) used to rant and rave if his centre didn't pass him the ball when he thought he could score a try!
All the great wingers acknowledge the value of having a great centre.
And, when I was making the point about MM being the coach, I would suggest he has a far greater knowledge about invidual players strengths and weakneses than any of us do. That's his job. We only see a narrow "spectators" view of things - he has to look at individuals + how they interact with the team as a whole -not easy.
Oh, by the way, Billy Boston scored 571 tries, Mrtin Offiah 481 +. And a shock to me, Ellery Hanley 428 - not bad for a non-winger!