gpartin wrote:Am I totally imagining that once upon a time players got penalised for a swinging arm regardless of point of contact. There is absolutely no need whatsoever for any player to ever have a his arm straight and stiff with a clenched fist end of, accident waiting to happen with such leniency.
That's my view. Look how he holds his arm at the start(a) and look where it ends up (b). He had to swing it to get it from point a) to point b).
Dave i've seen your stills and admire what you're trying to do but my interpretation of those shots is that he didn't swing his arm as his lower arm is still behind his body even during and after impact. His arm obviously bends from Hansen's head but agree with what Mike said the point of impact may have just, unfortunately for both players, been a touch out of place and bordering on illegal. It's open to interpretation and perhaps would be better backed up with more frames inbetween shots, imo he definately dips his shoulder to make the tackle. It's similar to the Guttenbeil video posted elsewhere on this thread.
Panchitta Marra wrote:
Excellent Stills Dave which clearly shows the illegal offence.
I think it's relatively easy to pick a still shot to back up a point of view if you want to be sneaky about it but as I said above if you watch the video it looks worse than those two stills convey. Not that anyone has accused me of being sneaky but I just wanted to make the point I am not being selective in those shots.
I was guilty of thinking Morley wasnst such a bad guy, as I looked up to him as a tough Brit capable of matching it with the Aussies.
With this evidence and the debarcle in the Wire v cas game, he is just a blatant thug getting worse in age.
There is enough evidence for the RFL to act and stop him using this so called tackling style, however, two hits too many before action has been properly taken.
He seems to have assumed the role in some peoples eyes of some sort of elder statesman of RL forwards and so is above the law of the game.
I love the tough tackling we have been doing recently and think it set the platform for us to win the game v HKR but we didn't resort to that sort of thing and had we done so I think one of our players would have been sent off.
Dave
Everything about Rugby League is tough Dave, and thats one of the reasons why we like it. Tough but Fair.
To rough it out in tough collisions wins games, and like you, I am pleased by the way Wigan have set a good standard of defence including the tough tackling.
Rugby League doesnt need the style of hits that Morley is putting in, which in effect could end someones career.
Panchitta Marra wrote:
Rugby League doesnt need the style of hits that Morley is putting in, which in effect could end someones career.
This is a very serious thing and I have written to the RFL about this today and suggest others do the same. Not sure whether it was on here or RLFans but someone made the point that a spokesman for the RFL would be quite willing to appear at a press conference expressing regret when a young half back has his career ended with a broken neck caused by one of these brutal challenges, yet they won't bother doing anything to prevent it. I basically said if they wanted to ignore the letter they could do but if they did I still have a copy for if or when the RFL end up with blood on their hands. Maybe I was a little OTT with them but its just ridiculous thuggish behaviour that certain people are getting away with and have done for years (Fozzard leading with [broken] forearm for example). I'm no legal expert but as I touched upon earlier If a player did get serious injury by a dangerous tackle the I'm sure the players Lawyer would be able to acquire videos of previous challenges that have appeared before the disciplinary board to demonstrate their inaction/negligence. Its an absolute joke and not a very funny one at that, as fans we should be able to make a difference here.
Gareth Thomas before his first game: "You wanna spend 10 mins getting smashed up by these guys..Big dudes here.."
ancientnloyal wrote:Dave i've seen your stills and admire what you're trying to do but my interpretation of those shots is that he didn't swing his arm as his lower arm is still behind his body even during and after impact.
As I said the video looks worse than the stills. You can clearly see in the video Morely pivot his body round so he strikes Hansen with the arm.
His arm obviously bends from Hansen's head but agree with what Mike said the point of impact may have just, unfortunately for both players, been a touch out of place and bordering on illegal. It's open to interpretation and perhaps would be better backed up with more frames inbetween shots, imo he definately dips his shoulder to make the tackle. It's similar to the Guttenbeil video posted elsewhere on this thread.
It's very difficult to get frames between those shots. There is no slow motion on the BBC iPlayer but you just need to watch the video not rely on the stills. Then when viewed from the angle of those stills you can see how Morely moves his arm and body. As I said his arm starts down slightly behind his left side and ends up wrapped round Hansen's head with the point of contact being the bicep.
The longer morley gets away with this "style" of tackling, the more that it will be imitated by other players - and eventually someone will be seriously hurt. Had Hansen slipped just prior to contact; then it could have been VERY serious. It will be no good morley apologising when he decapitates someone.
Elima tried exactly the same type of challenge on lomax and mistimed it - nearly taking his head off in the process. That (in my opinion) is why this form of "tackle" should be outlawed.
Morley is - and has always been a thug. He is held in high regard by the British game as he was the only player in the NRL for a long time who gave a good account of himself. That combined with Barrie Mac's constant endorsement of him on sky has led to him being thought of as an "enforcer". Were Barrie not so well thought of; it is highly likely that morley would not be as popular as he is.
"And Martin Offiah, trying to make some space, now then..." - Ray French, Wembley 1994
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Interviewer: So that obviously means that you're not going to St Helens and you're not going to Leeds?
Frano: I don't know why I would ever want to go to St Helens or Leeds
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It definitely wasn't a stiff arm to the head or neck, more like a stiff arm across the chest with his shoulder hitting HH on the chin.
However having said that, we've had one or two players who haven't been exactly averse to throwing in the odd bell ringer or 2. As for Morley being a good guy/bad guy, I'm in the good guy camp. Morley has been, is still one of the best props of his generation. As well as having a pretty bad mean streak sometimes on the field and off it, he also does more than his fair wack for charities and community.
I'm also willing to bet almost to a man/woman, Wigan fans would have loved to see him playing for us.
You can't compare the tackle on hansen to the one Northy did on Smyth. Northey was an out and out phsyco, a bully who set out deliberately to hurt smaller players than himself, then legged it when challenged by the likes of Quinell. He was an embarrassment to his own team mates.
Morley doesn't come anywhere near this sort of thuggish cowardliness.
jobo wrote:Touch and go as to whether it was legal.
It definitely wasn't a stiff arm to the head or neck, more like a stiff arm across the chest with his shoulder hitting HH on the chin.
However having said that, we've had one or two players who haven't been exactly averse to throwing in the odd bell ringer or 2. As for Morley being a good guy/bad guy, I'm in the good guy camp. Morley has been, is still one of the best props of his generation. As well as having a pretty bad mean streak sometimes on the field and off it, he also does more than his fair wack for charities and community.
I'm also willing to bet almost to a man/woman, Wigan fans would have loved to see him playing for us.
You can't compare the tackle on hansen to the one Northy did on Smyth. Northey was an out and out phsyco, a bully who set out deliberately to hurt smaller players than himself, then legged it when challenged by the likes of Quinell. He was an embarrassment to his own team mates.
Morley doesn't come anywhere near this sort of thuggish cowardliness.
im sorry but its sad sad times if hits like morleys are going to be banned :conf: there was nothing wrong with it .. it was just a good hard shot .. fair credit to hansen for keeping hold of the ball and in the end winning us the match