Are fans to blame?

[bootsnall]

The other reason of course for poor home form is that Wigan is still the place to come to and are still the team to beat, so teams can and do raise their games to a high level because they are against a large home crowd. A crowd who don't particularly like you actually raises your desire to win. Ignore players for the moment and think of Referee GANSON - how much does he love being hated? I was in a way quite pleased when Matty BLYTHE said on Sky that Warrington had "put a marker down" to all the other teams, by beating Wigan because they then became the team to beat and guess what since this famous quote...Lost and lost again.

[cpwigan]

Like I said earlier, the motivation for getting the good tackles in and not making a mistake is the desire to win. The fans would then be on side with the players. Where did all our stars start their careers I wonder? I don't know of many amateur sides who turn out 10,000+ every week. Therefore, why do they play at all? They do it because they love the game and have been talented enough to play professionally. For this, they put a lot of work in all year round, but they get paid for what they do. Let's reverse this one for a minute. How many fans did Catalans bring with them? How many do they get every week? Balance these low numbers against the higher turn outs of home fans like Wigan/Warrington/Saints/Leeds or Bradford on a cold night and if we use some of the arguments on here, it's amazing the Catalans players can even enter the field! I've never heard such nonsense. Fans to blame, my arse! It's getting a technical game this RL, especially with GPS technology and recorded playbacks. Wigan's performances in previous games and in key positions has been viewed and viewed again, which is why we're not as effective in some positions.

For all the advances, changes ANY sport is played between the head and some very basic characteristics still determine wins. The fans should not matter but they do.

Part of the reason is that modern day British people are inherently weak willed/minded especially when asked to do something collaboratively.

A young RL player only has to have a modicum of talent and all and sundry will tell him he is the next Joey Johns etc. We build people up excessively, we treat children like little emperors and they enter adulthood like little children. Physically they will be men/women but mentally they are so incredibly weak.

The spectators come from that same environment and are similarly weak. The moment things go wrong, spectators throw their dummy out, the little emperors are stunned at suddenly being criticised but guess what they can stop trying/take their ball home and hey presto some other desparate club/fans will offer them little emperor hero worship and they can move on and carry on regardless.

In our own little world we can pretend but then we are faced with competing internationally and in ANY sport that we ask British people to play as a team, we SUCK despite often having far better resources/more people.

Can British people take criticism. I think not any more.

The facts speak for themselves, we are a nation of losers when it comes to team sports and for most fans, maybe they need a new club motto; only sing when we are winning?

[Mike]

Are the fans to blame?

No. We've always had a very quiet home crowd. This year is no different. Nothing has changed in the crowd therefore I doubt there has been an effect on performances this season.

Wrt sports psychology, I would expect wigan would address that on an individual basis with coaching and specialise advice. These factors should far outweigh the relatively quiet home crowds at wigan.

[Mike]

The facts speak for themselves, we are a nation of losers when it comes to team sports and for most fans, maybe they need a new club motto; only sing when we are winning?

Oh come on, thats a bit ridiculous. Take the USA for a minute, lots of team sports and not a nation of losers. Go to any US team event where the home team is doing badly and you see how they react. Its not pretty I can tell you - they certainly don't encourage their team!

Also, look at the recent Aussie ashes defeat. They didn't even come when they were losing! Call them a nation of losers if you like.

Crowds can have some influence on team performances for sure, but great teams are more about the team rather than the crowd.

[cpwigan]

No nation IMO Mike goes way OTT at the merest hint of success than ourselves and more spiteful and resentful the moment things go wrong.

In Australia, in the USA my impression is that the crowd is essentially wallpaper whereas British crowds have typically been seen as something special, unique. If that is the case then IMO our crowds have more impact than elsewhere.

The impact of the crowd is exacerbated by the mental weakness that is now common place across all British sporting teams. Our sportsmen/women are mentally fragile particularly when asked to work in a team environment. We do not have the excuses of fitness etc etc now so we have to go back to what sport is essentially about and that is exercising skills as a group under pressure. The last ? 30? 40? 50? years we as a nation have far more readily exhibited incredible mental weakness.

Even John Monie talked about how much more difficult British sportsmen are to work with, how their psyche is very different, how he had to 'teach' RL legends the importance of the 'team'. Even our 'greats' were so tempremental that they were prepared to throw a Regal Trophy final to prove a point.

[cpwigan]

I watched the Catalans game again on DVD today (glutton for punishment) Pre game, the crowd is mute. The Sam try the crowd celebrates, its positive. From the moment, Goulding loses/is fouled for the Cats try, the crowd switches off and even via a TV screen it feels odd. There was a brief Wigan at one point as a rallying call but it was not taken up by 90% of the crowd and soon dies out.

As the match progresses, it becomes 'ugly'. I cannot even think of a fitting word for it.

[highland convert]

No matter the sport, concentration is the key. Tennis shhh,
darts, snooker, bowls, concentration. Some, especially team sports, it is encoragement that sharpens the concentration. I still harp back to Mathers and the high bomb. The crashendo of oooohs as the bomb was coming down. Designed to get him panicing from his own fans and the smug "I told you so" when he flunked it. Pryce takes a lot of flack. Then he is supposed to show flare and enthusiasm. These are not old battle hardened men. They are mere lads. They can be made, killed by the level of praise/barracking they receive. Get behind the team, don't kick it up the butt,
Jim

[x Wigan Warrior x]

[quote="cpwigan"]in the USA my impression is that the crowd is essentially wallpaper whereas British crowds have typically been seen as something special, unique. If that is the case then IMO our crowds have more impact than elsewhere.

quote]

Tell that to any NY team be it base ball, basket ball or American Football. I have experienced all three whilst spending 12 months over there and their media and fans before and after games. The fans can and will react to losses causing players even to go into therapy because of crowd pressure, they are able to effectively sack coaches and players through pressure…… that’s POWER.

Although I must say that I think this IS a bad thing, because as you know, fans are fickle !

[Alex the Warrior]

cp, you appear to be getting quite mellow in your old age

I know, frightening, I may have lost my RL mojo

Anybody remember Rocket Ronnie Braithwaite. An incredibly average alliance stalwart winger who was prone to making errors. Wigan gave him his 15 minutes of fame in the late 80's ? picking him for the first team. He played superbly. The Wigan fans literally sucked and dragged Rocket through tackles, through games. It is IMO one of the most memorable monents of my time as a Wigan fan, the fantastic reception/encouragement the Rocket got.

Blimey, tall coloured lad on the right wing in the days when we had Hendy on the left. I can remember him playing a few times in a season where we started with a load of home defeats. Now that I've given away some clues as to my age, I'll go and have a lie down before reading everyone's thoughts on the bizarre disparity in our results later.

[gpartin]

I don't see how anyone can deny that players are affected by the atmosphere at a match and the same goes for any sport. I don't buy this notion that they're big softies as Jim implies but they are human. However, fans too are human and perceived lack of effort will result in a poor atmosphere and even booing, its always been the case and always will be. Since the players are being paid and we are paying, we have a right to complain, they have a duty to pull their fingers out and to make the crowd get behind them, not the other way round.

Another silly notion is that we are somehow worse than any other club or that the DW is a particularly bad stadium. People are judging based on what it's like at away games. When we're winning or gaining momentum away from home we make a lot of noise because we're all together, we barely notice the away support but its still a great atmosphere. When we're losing we hear the away fans making loads of noise because they're beating Wigan. At Headingley the other week when Leeds were dominating their fans were making loads of noise yet when it was clear we were coming back the tide turned and you could have heard a pin drop at the back of the South Stand. Some of the best games I've ever been to for atmosphere have been whilst watching as a neutral at the KC, on the face of things the perfect designed stadium for atmosphere. However at the last ever GB game there the game was a bit poor and the atmosphere was as dead as any match I've ever been to, horrendous. At the Hull v Rovers derby last year the extremes were like nothing I've ever known. The place was like a graveyard for much of the game. Unless you've visited every ground in SL and sat with the home fans for a game when the home side is (a) dominating, (b) being humiliated AND (c) involved in a close game you're judging the atmosphere from the wrong perspective and any conclusions drawn will therefore be flawed. Its a myth with as much truth in it as the Wigan Walk. At Old Trafford during the GF I might as well have been sat in an empty stadium because where I was sat there was hardly any atmosphere whatsoever others at the game would say otherwise.

PS the poor home form argument is still a nonsense, statistics don't paint a full picture. Last year we played the best teams away from home early in the season when we were virtually at full strength and they weren't, and at home later in the season when we weren't at full strength and they pretty much were. This season we've put in some decent performances and some poor ones home and away but I'm sure some people will continue to speak nonsense based on what's being discussed by the muppets at Sky.