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I couldn't care less about all the conspiracy theories. All I care about is that we have lost a very good player just before the start of the season. Our team is, imo, weaker than last season. Who are we left with who can really bully the opposition and impose their will. Leeds, Wire and Saints will be pretty chuffed at this news.

georgeorwell wrote:I couldn't care less about all the conspiracy theories. All I care about is that we have lost a very good player just before the start of the season. Our team is, imo, weaker than last season. Who are we left with who can really bully the opposition and impose their will. Leeds, Wire and Saints will be pretty chuffed at this news.

That there is no doubt we have lost a decent player (although in all honesty this would be the second time we have "lost him")

It is up to the players now to prove they have what it takes and perform to the standards that prove we didn't rely on him in the first place. TBH I think Sam going would have far more reaching consequences for the side but that's for another day

I would hope in the meantime that the club is scouring the market for possible signings at least for mid-season when Australian clubs start to release and make players available

cherry.pie wrote: That's a subjective way of looking at it. Despite the club wanting to hold out for some money in return, they've got nothing and Hock has got what he wanted.

No he hasn't. He remains a contracted Wigan player and is on loan at Widnes. I am certain he doesn't want to be playing for a bottom of the table side.

The club also has cap space free now which wasn't available before which is a minor issue in all of this but it's there nevertheless.

The loan deal doesn't benefit Wigan. It means the club are minus another top player before the start of the year, with little chance of signing a replacement while another club have made a top signing when big names are hard to come by.

In other words, the club has come off worse. Contracts are worth little because no club wants to keep an unhappy player. If a player wants out then chances are he's going to get out. This situation would back that up.

Yes we have lost his services but you are forgetting he is still a contracted Wigan player. Wigan have not released him and have used the fact he is contracted to the club to organise things as they have. They won't release him until an appropriate fee is paid and that is only possible because he has a contract.

What this says is while a player can be an awkward swine the club isn't going to bend to their every whim and just let them walk out. You mess us about? A loan to a bottom of the table club is your likely destination.

If the loan had fallen through I reckon he'd be "injured" for quite some time and would be on Gardening Leave for the foreseeable future.

This isn't someone like Piggy asking to leave on compassionate grounds and I am sure other players will have taken notice of the outcome before they consider taking their bat and ball home.

cherry.pie wrote:
Someone suing for libel only has to prove what has been said 'tends to discredit' them or lowers them in the estimation of others. Therefore it's not a case of absolute proof at all.

Not quite.

Defamation is a two stage process where a judge decides it the facts are capable of amounting to defamation, before it goes onto stage two.

There are three elements to defamation, the first one being that the statement must be defamatory. The full test of which you only got part is that the statement is 'calculated to injure the reputation of another by exposing them to hatred contempt or ridicule' and which 'tends to lower the claimant in the estimation of right thinking members of society.

If you publish something that is true you can still be sued. It's up to the person to prove what they have written is correct and that's not always easy because it has to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt. The person pursuing the claim doesn't have to prove that it isn't true, just what I mentioned above.

You can sue anyone for anything, it doesn't mean you have are going to succeed, and the proof is only on the balance of probabilities, not beyond reasonable doubt. as previously stated, there is no public funding available for those who sue for libel, hence it is a pastime that will only suit the very rich.

As for the bit about it being fine if it's already in the public domain, just look at the Lord McAlpine case. It was everywhere but anyone who mentioned it could, in theory, be sued.

Defamation Act 1996
Section 1 provides the innocent publication defence; It is not defamation for a person to reproduce material that they did not believe contained defamatory material.


So can they be sued?
probably.
Will they be found liable?
not likely

Ok does anyone know really whats gone on? Unless they are at the scene of the so called events witnessed you are all just taking one word against another or hearsay. If you are taking one side in this "Hock" why are his version of events more reliable than IL or Wane that is if any of this has come from Hocks lips himself to you in person or from just someone who knowes him? If he did tell you why when such a threat lay over him? Dont see how a move sorts this out in any way. If what he saw is so bad going to WIdnes wont makeit disapear. No doubt the club will read this and so in a way it brings it in to public domain even more.
The only thing thats fact his hes gone to Widnes all the rest is just waffle I don, t get the cloak and dagger stuff.
The guy was a game changer, he ran with the power of the mad, but he was as frustrating to me as he was good! For every good thing he did he could cancle out with simple game mistakes, on his day could have been a great more often I seem to remember my head in my hands, so annoying for one with such talent. The facts will show we won nothing with Hock on the feild but in his time away and out we did. Wasted talent, should have got so much more from the game and we should have enjoyed it so much more very sad end but end it is.

Not doing much 'bullying of the opposition' when he let the club badly down by taking a banned substance and got himself put out of the game for two seasons, plus of course, the numerous suspensions for doing stupid offences.

For over a decade, the club has bent over backwards to help Hock like no other player.

Best of luck Dennis, you will need it!

lucky 13 wrote:If what he saw is so bad going to WIdnes wont makeit disapear. No doubt the club will read this and so in a way it brings it in to public domain even more.

No it won't make it go away but that won't be why he went to Widnes if there is anything in it. It will be not being able to work with Wane and so what is IL supposed to do when you have a coach and player who can't work together (whatever the reason)?

The facts will show we won nothing with Hock on the feild but in his time away and out we did. Wasted talent, should have got so much more from the game and we should have enjoyed it so much more very sad end but end it is.

That is how he will be remembered unless the rumours come out in public as fact.

I have not got a clue as to what went wrong within the club and it's management or lack of management re Gareth Hock.Other than the statement issued by the club.But one thing I do know is that we are a much bigger club than one player despite the fact that I like him as a player.We have seen better players than Hock and will see better players in the future.I cannot stop people from speculating as to who or what was to blame for GH departure nor can I ask people to stop the slanging matches that go on.I just ask people to remember that it is nearly the start of a new season a season that as just become that little bit harder.To turn out in force this season and shout just that little bit harder than usual.Hock or no Hock it is Wigan Warriors we support not one player.

1. My vote wasn't that bad after all
2. Wigan need a trophy in 2013
3. if not, welcome back Hock.

simply?

Lenegan will always produce statements that will look good on the club, that's why we have spin. Never believe anything you read in the Press as it is mostly a person's POV. There is nothing wrong in asking for a pay rise, Hock know's his salary was modest but being in the Dream Team and England International, he is worth more and rightly so, didn't Gleeson sign on big money years after his problems.

A loss to us is Hock, a player I have always championed. Until I know the facts from both parties (possibly a book by Hock... a Bock) my mentality is that it is an unfortunate set of circumstances. Here is hoping for 2014. If Hock was that bad, why not simply sack him?

I've kept quite during this whole sorry saga, I'm sorry to see Wigan warriors lose a barnstorming forward in Gareth hock and am very concerned for this season, last season although we got the wooden spoon at the times when it mattered our pack was non existent, the loss of hock with no equally good signing as a replacement and the moving on of other key forwards will come back and bite us.

CPwigan I glad you are putting up a different argument to all the hock beaters and I'm sure that Gareth's side of the story will come out in the public domain, my ten peneth is that Gareth doesn't want to disrespect the club that stood by him so his silence tells another story, either he's legally not allowed to tell his side or he's waiting for the best opportunity to present itself.

Somehow the silence from SW and IL statement telling the rest of the Wigan staff to make no comment smells of other legal unresolved issues going on in the back ground.

I just hope that at the end of the season I am eating my words about this years squad not performing or winning owt