The biggest failing of Wane

[DaveO]

In the meantime we have to see how Wanes copes in adversity but I am not confident about that. As a result we could do as we did last year and end up fighting for top spot in the last weeks of the season and go tired again into the play offs.

Like we did in Madge's last season when he'd gone all out for the CC?

No like we did last season. There really is no comparison.

[Fujiman]

Reply to DaveO: Not going to quote it all.

I agree with Jobo there is no way that a manager of a club could want to sell his best player. Like every business going the Manager is left week after week trying to put a spin on it whilst the owner hides in his room. And knowing IL he will come out once he has anything positive to try and do a damage limitation exercise as he does.

As for game plan he does play too much of getting the ball wide quickly especially in close games especially Friday night when the weather is not suited to it.

But when you Miss Flower (for me our best prop this season) Mossop, Taylor, Lauaki and Prescott its going to be tough taking on most front rows in Super League especially on a short turn around. Wether he changes when they return is another matter.

Gimble, the problem with that theory is yes the team will improve when the best players return BUT it almost become irrelevant offensively which prop are playing under Wane. Wane talk the talk re running hard and strong but our props rarely get the opportunity to do so when they should be and when it truly matters, inside our own half and the first 20 of the opposition half. Props want the ball direct, flat and ASAP. Our best props are suffering according to many (check the Mossop thread on Rlfans). IMO we pass too many times in our own half, run far too many 2nd man plays in our own far particularly close to the POTB. What happened to wearing down opposition props by 'zig zag' the plays to make their props tackle twice in a set etc. Our is a game about field position gained by yardage plays to the point you destroy opposing teams in the first 20 minutes / half. Madge had our teams playing that perfectly. Wane should have understood everything he was taught / witnessed. Yet he does not. Instead, he openly said I will do it my way and my way will be better. Remember, this is a player who wanted to play it his way (super tough) but would not train his body properly to do so (John Monies Iceman Autobiography). Far too many fans give Wane the ability to walk on water because he is a Wiganer. Stuff that garbage and I'm a Wiganer!

Remember the Play Offs / GF tends to be played during a period of poor weather. Wanes World does not function in the wet. Our best chance is Wembley if we can get there and it stays dry.

The lateral utopian bullshit espoused by Schofield and Wane is the reason those damn Aussies have been handing us our asses for decades.

I agree re IL BUT Wane is a pushover for IL. IL says jump and Wane says how high Ian. Madge stood up to IL and if he wanted something he got it.

but Madge also left us in the lurch when he left. Did he leave during his contract or did it / was it about to run out?

[Kittwazzer]

In the meantime we have to see how Wanes copes in adversity but I am not confident about that. As a result we could do as we did last year and end up fighting for top spot in the last weeks of the season and go tired again into the play offs.

Like we did in Madge's last season when he'd gone all out for the CC?

No like we did last season. There really is no comparison.

You don't think the players were tired for the 2011 playoffs?

[DaveO]

Like we did in Madge's last season when he'd gone all out for the CC?

No like we did last season. There really is no comparison.

You don't think the players were tired for the 2011 playoffs?

I meant winning the hubcap wasn't a priority under Madge whereas it was for Wane least year and so a big reason our players were tired was because Wane chased the hub cap.

In 2011 the players were tired but not because Madge priorities the hubcap and the team had already got to and won the CC final whereas in 2012 we had no such excuse.

I also think any tiredness in 2011 was also due to players switching off after having won the cup so I am not even sure you'd call it that anyway.

[shaunedwardsfanclub]

Reply to DaveO: Not going to quote it all.

I agree with Jobo there is no way that a manager of a club could want to sell his best player. Like every business going the Manager is left week after week trying to put a spin on it whilst the owner hides in his room. And knowing IL he will come out once he has anything positive to try and do a damage limitation exercise as he does.

As for game plan he does play too much of getting the ball wide quickly especially in close games especially Friday night when the weather is not suited to it.

But when you Miss Flower (for me our best prop this season) Mossop, Taylor, Lauaki and Prescott its going to be tough taking on most front rows in Super League especially on a short turn around. Wether he changes when they return is another matter.

Gimble, the problem with that theory is yes the team will improve when the best players return BUT it almost become irrelevant offensively which prop are playing under Wane. Wane talk the talk re running hard and strong but our props rarely get the opportunity to do so when they should be and when it truly matters, inside our own half and the first 20 of the opposition half. Props want the ball direct, flat and ASAP. Our best props are suffering according to many (check the Mossop thread on Rlfans). IMO we pass too many times in our own half, run far too many 2nd man plays in our own far particularly close to the POTB. What happened to wearing down opposition props by 'zig zag' the plays to make their props tackle twice in a set etc. Our is a game about field position gained by yardage plays to the point you destroy opposing teams in the first 20 minutes / half. Madge had our teams playing that perfectly. Wane should have understood everything he was taught / witnessed. Yet he does not. Instead, he openly said I will do it my way and my way will be better. Remember, this is a player who wanted to play it his way (super tough) but would not train his body properly to do so (John Monies Iceman Autobiography). Far too many fans give Wane the ability to walk on water because he is a Wiganer. Stuff that garbage and I'm a Wiganer!

Remember the Play Offs / GF tends to be played during a period of poor weather. Wanes World does not function in the wet. Our best chance is Wembley if we can get there and it stays dry.

The lateral utopian bullshit espoused by Schofield and Wane is the reason those damn Aussies have been handing us our asses for decades.

I agree re IL BUT Wane is a pushover for IL. IL says jump and Wane says how high Ian. Madge stood up to IL and if he wanted something he got it.

I've nothing against Waney and I hope he goes on to achieve both a CC and SL success this year, but in terms of coaching ability, tactics and the skill to propel a team to new levels then I am afraid that he comes a distant second to Madge. I think CPW sums it all up nicely, yes we were terrible on Friday and sometimes that happens to even the best but Waney's selection and tactics left a lot to be desired. At one point we played with four pivots on the field! Two up and comming props were overlooked at the expense of a RU convert who is still way off the pace (if I were those lads then I would be worried about my future at Wigan)! We had an hooker returning after an operation and no like for like replacement on the bench! We played an expansive game, even from deep in our own half despite the conditions and regularly turned the ball over! We had no plan B! Players were picked who were quite clearly unfit! Even from the outset we had little or no chance of winning that game.

If we are to be successful then Waney has got to get streetwise. We knew that we were going to get a physical battering at Warrington and then have to turn up four days later and play again. We needed to prioritise one match (we may have to do so agian when we play Saints and then hopefully play a semi-final four/five days later). Cups are not won at this stage in the season but they can be lost. Rugby League is a simple game and those that tend to get the basics right prosper.

Give me Madge any day of the week, he is a top class coach and if you don't believe me look at what he has acheived in his short time at Souths. With this Wigan team and the quality of the opposition I would be confident that Madge would bring home the bacon.

[thegimble]

Reply to DaveO: Not going to quote it all.

I agree with Jobo there is no way that a manager of a club could want to sell his best player. Like every business going the Manager is left week after week trying to put a spin on it whilst the owner hides in his room. And knowing IL he will come out once he has anything positive to try and do a damage limitation exercise as he does.

As for game plan he does play too much of getting the ball wide quickly especially in close games especially Friday night when the weather is not suited to it.

But when you Miss Flower (for me our best prop this season) Mossop, Taylor, Lauaki and Prescott its going to be tough taking on most front rows in Super League especially on a short turn around. Wether he changes when they return is another matter.

Gimble, the problem with that theory is yes the team will improve when the best players return BUT it almost become irrelevant offensively which prop are playing under Wane. Wane talk the talk re running hard and strong but our props rarely get the opportunity to do so when they should be and when it truly matters, inside our own half and the first 20 of the opposition half. Props want the ball direct, flat and ASAP. Our best props are suffering according to many (check the Mossop thread on Rlfans). IMO we pass too many times in our own half, run far too many 2nd man plays in our own far particularly close to the POTB. What happened to wearing down opposition props by 'zig zag' the plays to make their props tackle twice in a set etc. Our is a game about field position gained by yardage plays to the point you destroy opposing teams in the first 20 minutes / half. Madge had our teams playing that perfectly. Wane should have understood everything he was taught / witnessed. Yet he does not. Instead, he openly said I will do it my way and my way will be better. Remember, this is a player who wanted to play it his way (super tough) but would not train his body properly to do so (John Monies Iceman Autobiography). Far too many fans give Wane the ability to walk on water because he is a Wiganer. Stuff that garbage and I'm a Wiganer!

Remember the Play Offs / GF tends to be played during a period of poor weather. Wanes World does not function in the wet. Our best chance is Wembley if we can get there and it stays dry.

The lateral utopian bullshit espoused by Schofield and Wane is the reason those damn Aussies have been handing us our asses for decades.

I agree re IL BUT Wane is a pushover for IL. IL says jump and Wane says how high Ian. Madge stood up to IL and if he wanted something he got it.

I've nothing against Waney and I hope he goes on to achieve both a CC and SL success this year, but in terms of coaching ability, tactics and the skill to propel a team to new levels then I am afraid that he comes a distant second to Madge. I think CPW sums it all up nicely, yes we were terrible on Friday and sometimes that happens to even the best but Waney's selection and tactics left a lot to be desired. At one point we played with four pivots on the field! Two up and comming props were overlooked at the expense of a RU convert who is still way off the pace (if I were those lads then I would be worried about my future at Wigan)! We had an hooker returning after an operation and no like for like replacement on the bench! We played an expansive game, even from deep in our own half despite the conditions and regularly turned the ball over! We had no plan B! Players were picked who were quite clearly unfit! Even from the outset we had little or no chance of winning that game.

If we are to be successful then Waney has got to get streetwise. We knew that we were going to get a physical battering at Warrington and then have to turn up four days later and play again. We needed to prioritise one match (we may have to do so agian when we play Saints and then hopefully play a semi-final four/five days later). Cups are not won at this stage in the season but they can be lost. Rugby League is a simple game and those that tend to get the basics right prosper.

Give me Madge any day of the week, he is a top class coach and if you don't believe me look at what he has acheived in his short time at Souths. With this Wigan team and the quality of the opposition I would be confident that Madge would bring home the bacon.

Devils advocate time:

What has Madge achieved in the NRL that Wane has not at Wigan. In terms of trophies and finals both the same apart from we finished top in SL. Though i do agree Madge is a better coach by a long way.

[jobo]

I meant winning the hubcap wasn't a priority under Madge whereas it was for Wane least year and so a big reason our players were tired was because Wane chased the hub cap.

In 2011 the players were tired but not because Madge priorities the hubcap and the team had already got to and won the CC final whereas in 2012 we had no such excuse.

I also think any tiredness in 2011 was also due to players switching off after having won the cup so I am not even sure you'd call it that anyway.

And it didn't have anything to do with Michael McIlorum getting himself needlessly sent off and banned at a vital time in the season, or Tommy getting injured in the exiles game, or Sam injuring his thigh, or Finchy choosing the final playoff game to give one of the worst performances of his Wigan stint?????. You could point to any one of several reasons why we didn't win either the GF or the CC other than the coaching staff.

[cpwigan]

Gimble, I think you have to compare what Souths were like pre Madge to what they are now. Madge has moved that club onwards and upwards tenfold. The injury to Reynolds mid game screwed their GF opportunity, they are GF favourites this season in a far better competition. Wane inherited a successful team and took them backwards.

[thegimble]

Gimble, I think you have to compare what Souths were like pre Madge to what they are now. Madge has moved that club onwards and upwards tenfold. The injury to Reynolds mid game screwed their GF opportunity, they are GF favourites this season in a far better competition. Wane inherited a successful team and took them backwards.

Slight difference is that under Madge we had a bit more stability in personnel and he managed to get 3 quality NRL players in the squad. Whilst now we will be lucky to not have lose a few more with IL policy of letting them go as soon as they are worth anything to him. With Sam, Mossop, Richards, Hock going as well as a chance that Hansen could go i feel sorry for any coach with an owner Like IL atm.

Instability will eventually lead us to mediocrity and maybe no one will not want any of our players we can finish 5th and win a Grand final now where have i seen that happen.

[cpwigan]

Gimble, I think you have to compare what Souths were like pre Madge to what they are now. Madge has moved that club onwards and upwards tenfold. The injury to Reynolds mid game screwed their GF opportunity, they are GF favourites this season in a far better competition. Wane inherited a successful team and took them backwards.

Slight difference is that under Madge we had a bit more stability in personnel and he managed to get 3 quality NRL players in the squad. Whilst now we will be lucky to not have lose a few more with IL policy of letting them go as soon as they are worth anything to him. With Sam, Mossop, Richards, Hock going as well as a chance that Hansen could go i feel sorry for any coach with an owner Like IL atm.

Instability will eventually lead us to mediocrity and maybe no one will not want any of our players we can finish 5th and win a Grand final now where have i seen that happen.

The current period reminds me of when Monie went to NZ and the likes of Platt / Betts followed. Some fans forget that they faced far bigger challenges than we do now. The SL War was far more destabilising than anything happening now. I hate reading the likes of Cruncher / Wigan Peer on RLfans think somehow we (myself and Dave O have an agenda garbage). Truth be told we are just passionate intelligent fans who have seen such event in the past). I would rather care and shout / scream than be a happy clapper blindly accept the word put out in the name of Wigan RLFC as the gospel. Trust me the team never has / never will tell you the truth. Hence, take anything / everything they print with a huge 'healthy' dose of salt.