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Mike wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:03 pm Dave doesn't like Powell. It's his thing. We all have to get used to that fact that every post will say that.

Well perhaps Dave should stop saying it then.

jao711 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:33 pm

DaveO wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:22 pm

jao711 wrote:
Did you count the 694 tackles .Leading tackler by133?(Superleague Official site).Does that she’d anymore light on the subject?

So what? That’s all he’s good at. He can’t pass to save his life, is so slow get the ball away he brings the opposition defence onto our attack and hardly ever runs from dummy half.

And where is it written a different hooker won’t tackle or should be the one doing so much tackling anyway? Other teams seems to manage without their number 9 being their top tackler.

He’d be fine to bring on toward the end of games to help close out a game when we were in front but there is no way he should be first choice hooker at a top club nor an 80 minute hooker.

. So you’re not impressed by 694 tackles(Boy they must be tough where you live )but did you need to be so nasty? Is that what you’re good at Dave?

Ok but let me provide another take on that impressive stat

you make tackles while defending
you defend more the less you control a game
you control a game when you are attacking well and making ground

So saying its impressive the amount of tackles he is making is sort of like commending a boxer on how good at taking punches he is - thats great but if the best boxers dont take punches just like the best teams dont need to make a ridiculous amount of tackles a match. Excessive tackling is not a great measure of success it just proves you are somewhat coping with the fact you are not in control of a game

In the top 20 tackles 4 are wigan players featuring more than any other club in that list not only that the other players are non 80min players.

Wigan_forever1985 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:00 pm

jao711 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:33 pm

DaveO wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:22 pm
So what? That’s all he’s good at. He can’t pass to save his life, is so slow get the ball away he brings the opposition defence onto our attack and hardly ever runs from dummy half.

And where is it written a different hooker won’t tackle or should be the one doing so much tackling anyway? Other teams seems to manage without their number 9 being their top tackler.

He’d be fine to bring on toward the end of games to help close out a game when we were in front but there is no way he should be first choice hooker at a top club nor an 80 minute hooker.

. So you’re not impressed by 694 tackles(Boy they must be tough where you live )but did you need to be so nasty? Is that what you’re good at Dave?

Ok but let me provide another take on that impressive stat

you make tackles while defending
you defend more the less you control a game
you control a game when you are attacking well and making ground

So saying its impressive the amount of tackles he is making is sort of like commending a boxer on how good at taking punches he is - thats great but if the best boxers dont take punches just like the best teams dont need to make a ridiculous amount of tackles a match. Excessive tackling is not a great measure of success it just proves you are somewhat coping with the fact you are not in control of a game

In the top 20 tackles 4 are wigan players featuring more than any other club in that list not only that the other players are non 80min players.

Let me check I've got this right...

If Powell makes a lot of tackles, then we're having to defend to much, therefore it's his fault?

Whaaaat???

So picking a goalie who makes a lot of saves is the wrong approach - you should pick one who scores goals

you make tackles while defending
you defend more the less you control a game
you control a game when you are attacking well and making ground

Let me check I've got this right...

If Powell makes a lot of tackles, then we're having to defend to much, therefore it's his fault?

Whaaaat???

So picking a goalie who makes a lot of saves is the wrong approach - you should pick one who scores goals

I’ll take this 1 point at a time

If Powell is making a lot of tackles I.e a ridiculous amount then it is probably due to us defending more as a team - I didn’t say this was his fault on his own but what I’m saying is that if we were in charge of more games then he wouldn’t need to tackle as much as you can’t tackle when you have the ball. So how do you control a game - you play it in the opposing half and ensure you’re on top - a big criticism of Powell that is simply fact and not debatable is how slow he is - so we lose any ability for cheap yards that a scooting hooker makes. We also have a his slow passing from the ruck making it so the opposite defense have more time to set and attack meaning we break less. We therefore are often struggling to make enough meters to be in a commanding position at the end of the set. Not all Powell’s fault but his complete lack of pace (again that’s fact) contributes in reducing our options

On the second point you analogy doesn’t hold a goalie only has 1 job that’s to save goals - a hooker doesn’t only have 1 job to tackle. So reducing a hooker to 1 quality just proves said hooker is massively limited- so if all you can offer is tackling as his skill then he’s missing 3-4 other qualities. To use a football analogy it would be like saying a central midfield player who can tackle but has no pace - poor at shooting and poor at passing

Roby is the best hooker super league has seen and while he’s often commended on his work rate in tackling - it’s his go forward that separated him from the rest - he basically carried the saints team for 2-3 years

I rest my case.

This is the issue with this Site - i took a break because it seemed if you weren't willing to accept the everything is great view then you were just called rotten

since ive been back only put in 4-5 posts in that time after providing a reply to a post "coaches always picked him" pointing out a coach that picked him the most hasnt picked him as soon as other hookers were available for the national side and had 4 hookers in that side? got a flippant response

then been compared to hitler

People say the Sam Powell isnt good enough argument is boring as if there is a finite amount of time that is applicable but surely its applicable while he still plays and doesnt increase rapidly in skill- and i have give him credit on occasions its merited it as others have but a broken clock is still right twice a day it doesnt make it any less broken

the level of "debate" on this site is shockingly

Wigan_forever1985 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:57 am This is the issue with this Site - i took a break because it seemed if you weren't willing to accept the everything is great view then you were just called rotten

since ive been back only put in 4-5 posts in that time after providing a reply to a post "coaches always picked him" pointing out a coach that picked him the most hasnt picked him as soon as other hookers were available for the national side and had 4 hookers in that side? got a flippant response

then been compared to hitler

People say the Sam Powell isnt good enough argument is boring as if there is a finite amount of time that is applicable but surely its applicable while he still plays and doesnt increase rapidly in skill- and i have give him credit on occasions its merited it as others have but a broken clock is still right twice a day it doesnt make it any less broken

the level of "debate" on this site is shockingly

Not necessarily yourself but it does work both ways, the Sam Powell isn't good enough group in general don't give him praise when he is good enough.

I have on occasion agreed with his detractors but some of the ire aimed at the player seems to he more because its Powell and the perceived job for boys rather than how he actually played.

What we did see vs leigh is Sam Powell isn't the hooker Wigan need under Lam, when he was off we played so much quicker I thought we where watching wire and Clarke. I would like to see the young hookers against a 13 man team before I make a judgement overall but if the outcome is the same it may be that Powell could very well be the weak link between us winning and losing matches.

Caboosegg wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:42 am

Wigan_forever1985 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:57 am This is the issue with this Site - i took a break because it seemed if you weren't willing to accept the everything is great view then you were just called rotten

since ive been back only put in 4-5 posts in that time after providing a reply to a post "coaches always picked him" pointing out a coach that picked him the most hasnt picked him as soon as other hookers were available for the national side and had 4 hookers in that side? got a flippant response

then been compared to hitler

People say the Sam Powell isnt good enough argument is boring as if there is a finite amount of time that is applicable but surely its applicable while he still plays and doesnt increase rapidly in skill- and i have give him credit on occasions its merited it as others have but a broken clock is still right twice a day it doesnt make it any less broken

the level of "debate" on this site is shockingly

Not necessarily yourself but it does work both ways, the Sam Powell isn't good enough group in general don't give him praise when he is good enough.

I have on occasion agreed with his detractors but some of the ire aimed at the player seems to he more because its Powell and the perceived job for boys rather than how he actually played.

What we did see vs leigh is Sam Powell isn't the hooker Wigan need under Lam, when he was off we played so much quicker I thought we where watching wire and Clarke. I would like to see the young hookers against a 13 man team before I make a judgement overall but if the outcome is the same it may be that Powell could very well be the weak link between us winning and losing matches.

FWIW i wouldnt get rid of Powell at all and ive said this before. In a salary capped sport assuming he isnt on superstar money i would 100% have him in the overall squad. I think if i look at what i consider to be Powells strengths are his generally low error rate, low risk style and good defence. Ive said Powell is probably not as bad as his haters make out and not as good as his supporters want you to believe he's middle of the road. For me he's our answer to what Hull used to have in Richard Whiting - he can cover 6/7/9/13 to a decent standard certainly a standard that you wouldnt be as concerned as chucking a 19/20 year old out there

What he isnt for me is a starting hooker in a top team - does anyone think that saints/wire/leeds/catalan/hull would trade Powell for their 9? does anyone think that Powell would actually stay in superleague if he left today? i mean outside shot at wakey and salford but realistically it would probably be Widnes wouldn't it? and im not saying that to be harsh but i cant see anyone supporting the argument a top team would be banging down the door for Powell - and if thats the case i cant see how you can support the ideology he's want a "top" team like Wigan should have

Wigan_forever1985 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:21 am

Caboosegg wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:42 am

Wigan_forever1985 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:57 am This is the issue with this Site - i took a break because it seemed if you weren't willing to accept the everything is great view then you were just called rotten

since ive been back only put in 4-5 posts in that time after providing a reply to a post "coaches always picked him" pointing out a coach that picked him the most hasnt picked him as soon as other hookers were available for the national side and had 4 hookers in that side? got a flippant response

then been compared to hitler

People say the Sam Powell isnt good enough argument is boring as if there is a finite amount of time that is applicable but surely its applicable while he still plays and doesnt increase rapidly in skill- and i have give him credit on occasions its merited it as others have but a broken clock is still right twice a day it doesnt make it any less broken

the level of "debate" on this site is shockingly

Not necessarily yourself but it does work both ways, the Sam Powell isn't good enough group in general don't give him praise when he is good enough.

I have on occasion agreed with his detractors but some of the ire aimed at the player seems to he more because its Powell and the perceived job for boys rather than how he actually played.

What we did see vs leigh is Sam Powell isn't the hooker Wigan need under Lam, when he was off we played so much quicker I thought we where watching wire and Clarke. I would like to see the young hookers against a 13 man team before I make a judgement overall but if the outcome is the same it may be that Powell could very well be the weak link between us winning and losing matches.

FWIW i wouldnt get rid of Powell at all and ive said this before. In a salary capped sport assuming he isnt on superstar money i would 100% have him in the overall squad. I think if i look at what i consider to be Powells strengths are his generally low error rate, low risk style and good defence. Ive said Powell is probably not as bad as his haters make out and not as good as his supporters want you to believe he's middle of the road. For me he's our answer to what Hull used to have in Richard Whiting - he can cover 6/7/9/13 to a decent standard certainly a standard that you wouldnt be as concerned as chucking a 19/20 year old out there

What he isnt for me is a starting hooker in a top team - does anyone think that saints/wire/leeds/catalan/hull would trade Powell for their 9? does anyone think that Powell would actually stay in superleague if he left today? i mean outside shot at wakey and salford but realistically it would probably be Widnes wouldn't it? and im not saying that to be harsh but i cant see anyone supporting the argument a top team would be banging down the door for Powell - and if thats the case i cant see how you can support the ideology he's want a "top" team like Wigan should have

As I said in another post if we must have Powell he'd be second string hooker to come on to tackle and give the no. 1 a rest but the problem with this is I suspect while he is on maybe not a superstar wage he's on a pretty big one. If the club is as strapped for cash as it seems I reckon they could have got two for the price of one with the two younger hookers. Amir is 20 anyway and of an age you'd expect him to be in the first team (Powell was 21 in 2013 when he payed 16 times).

As to why Powell keeps getting mentioned it's because he keeps getting picked and things happen like they did at Wire where he played 75 crap minutes and was only taken off because he was inured and the player who cane on made more meters in five minutes. Things like that get commented on.

Wigan_forever1985 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:57 am This is the issue with this Site - i took a break because it seemed if you weren't willing to accept the everything is great view then you were just called rotten

since ive been back only put in 4-5 posts in that time after providing a reply to a post "coaches always picked him" pointing out a coach that picked him the most hasnt picked him as soon as other hookers were available for the national side and had 4 hookers in that side? got a flippant response

then been compared to hitler

People say the Sam Powell isnt good enough argument is boring as if there is a finite amount of time that is applicable but surely its applicable while he still plays and doesnt increase rapidly in skill- and i have give him credit on occasions its merited it as others have but a broken clock is still right twice a day it doesnt make it any less broken

the level of "debate" on this site is shockingly

I can’t see in the post where Hitler was mentioned any of your posts quoted?

You’re correct though with the national side with other hookers being preferred.