IT IS VERY CLEAR

[josie andrews]

Me too!

I think this is a very good point. Over the last 20 years or so we have had success by "upping" our game against Saints.

It's about time we went into these games requiring them to do the same.

We have one of, if not the best youth systems in the country in Wigan, yet we still allow quality players to slip through the net and join other clubs on a regular basis e.g. Welsby and Makinson from yesterday alone.

We should be bossing the league on a regular basis. What on earth is going wrong?

Neither Welsby or Makinson came through our academy. Welsby went straight to Saints from Shevington Sharks & Makinson was signed straight to Saints from St Jude’s.

Weld your would not have signed for Wigan if he had been offered a million pounds, he only had eyes for Saints.

Correct, cos he’s a Latics fan!

[lucky 13]

We have improved, Matty has not been able yet to put our strongest 17 out, I'm not even sure what that is and I'm pretty sure he's not.
For me that strongest 17 has two of Zak, Thornley or KPP in the centre and KPP maybe off the bench if not starting.
We definitely have at least three players who are first choice in the 17 each week that should at best be back up. The issue like yesterday is then when you bring in one or two young or squad players into the mix we struggle especially against the better teams because we then end up with what I would class 5 squad players.
I would even go as far as saying a couple of those are in the leadership group and while model pro's you should maybe relying on one such player.
We don't seem to be able to balance our youth with cap and retention. I'm still of a mind set that at 15 to 18 development and maturity means dominant youth players end up being just that. It also seems to come with an easier to turn their head attitude and the big I am attitude in certain cases.
So like the other big thing has IL and Rads has mentioned is keeping them. Just on reflection in all the years Saints have dominated at first team level their youth teams have not been has successful has ours.
If we could have held our better youth players over that period and without seemingly being plagued by injury our home produced team would still be looking pretty good. Then it's easy to add to. Tomkin's Burgess Manfredi Davies Marshall Gildart Thornley Williams in the backs have all had good SL careers. Manfredi was the most gutting because he looked the type of lad who was happy here I don't think we would have seen the drama around his contracts. It's almost like your better off not producing the absolute best because they are easier to hang on to. In Dom's case he was potentially the best with a great attitude same with Marshal attitude to the club seems spot on.
Maybe the stuff Matt Peet was saying before the season alluded to this he only wants players who want to be here and are good people.
I actually think we are only two or three right signings away from Saints we may end up depending on who stays and goes with a lot more you definitely want players who want to be here.

[Wintergreen]

I agree that we can get more out of what we have, but we need to face up to the reality that we have been second best over decades. Yesterday’s game was the inevitable end result of Saints being better than us off the field in every way for a long time.

This is not a one off bounce of the ball/players having an off day - this was our 13th defeat in 15 games, and we didn’t even give them a hard game. We need to face reality as a club - whatever systems we have in place are inadequate when it comes to matching our main rivals. Unless we accept that as our starting point the next 25 years will be as bad as the last 25 years. And frankly I want to see us being top dogs on a regular basis again before I pass away.

Me too!

I think this is a very good point. Over the last 20 years or so we have had success by "upping" our game against Saints.

It's about time we went into these games requiring them to do the same.

We have one of, if not the best youth systems in the country in Wigan, yet we still allow quality players to slip through the net and join other clubs on a regular basis e.g. Welsby and Makinson from yesterday alone.

We should be bossing the league on a regular basis. What on earth is going wrong?

Neither Welsby or Makinson came through our academy. Welsby went straight to Saints from Shevington Sharks & Makinson was signed straight to Saints from St Jude’s.

I don't mean just the Academy Josie, I mean the area/town.

[josie andrews]

Me too!

I think this is a very good point. Over the last 20 years or so we have had success by "upping" our game against Saints.

It's about time we went into these games requiring them to do the same.

We have one of, if not the best youth systems in the country in Wigan, yet we still allow quality players to slip through the net and join other clubs on a regular basis e.g. Welsby and Makinson from yesterday alone.

We should be bossing the league on a regular basis. What on earth is going wrong?

Neither Welsby or Makinson came through our academy. Welsby went straight to Saints from Shevington Sharks & Makinson was signed straight to Saints from St Jude’s.

I don't mean just the Academy Josie, I mean the area/town.

Okay But Welsby would never have signed for us as mentioned earlier, he’s a Latics fan!

https://twitter.com/_yon_mon/status/151 ... dNS7iD-stw

[No straw damn us]

Neither Welsby or Makinson came through our academy. Welsby went straight to Saints from Shevington Sharks & Makinson was signed straight to Saints from St Jude’s.

Weld your would not have signed for Wigan if he had been offered a million pounds, he only had eyes for Saints.

Correct, cos he’s a Latics fan!

Not true, Welsby wasn't signed for Wigan because they had already signed Hanley, who along with Josh Thewliss who went to Wire were the better players at that junior age. Welsby supported both Wigan Warriors and Wigan Athletic as a kid.

[Caboosegg]

Weld your would not have signed for Wigan if he had been offered a million pounds, he only had eyes for Saints.

Correct, cos he’s a Latics fan!

Not true, Welsby wasn't signed for Wigan because they had already signed Hanley, who along with Josh Thewliss who went to Wire were the better players at that junior age. Welsby supported both Wigan Warriors and Wigan Athletic as a kid.

I always thought we didn't go for Makinson as we had Charnley and although hindsight is a bi... charnley was pure joy to watch while with us.

[keptinthedarkfans]

Weld your would not have signed for Wigan if he had been offered a million pounds, he only had eyes for Saints.

Correct, cos he’s a Latics fan!

Not true, Welsby wasn't signed for Wigan because they had already signed Hanley, who along with Josh Thewliss who went to Wire were the better players at that junior age. Welsby supported both Wigan Warriors and Wigan Athletic as a kid.

Them 2 are a drop in the ocean. Wigan are losing out to saints with scholarship signings in droves of brilliant Wigan amateurs. I spend my weekends watching grass roots rugby so see this first hand.

[DaveO]

My reference to Faz is due to his age he can’t go on forever so a sensible club would be planning on his retirement. But then this current Wigan regime will probably say he can decide when that is and he will still be playing at 40!

To what extent can the club seriously plan ahead for this when it might happen in 3 or 4 years time? We've already got more back row forwards at the club than we can fit in the team at any one time. Isa will almost certainly be the first to go.

The only way to really plan for Farrell's retirement at this point in time is to just keep the back row as strong as possible and keep working on developing the likes of Smithies, Pearce-Paul, Shorrocks, McDonnell, Nicholson and Nsemba. That seems to be exactly what the club are doing.

Some of those players will not be at the club when Farrell retires, there will be other young players in the academy showing promise and there will be the option of bringing in a new signing if necessary. What the club can't do is predict who is going to be available to sign for this eventual moment when Farrell retires.

It just seems odd to say 'what's the plan for replacing Farrell' when it's pretty much impossible to have a concrete plan in place at this moment in time. Particularly when there are other pressing concerns and his position is one that we've got so much depth in already.

Sorry but this is nonsense. The idea the club is basically clueless as to when a player should hang up his boots is nuts. It should decide when this is. So for example it could decide he’s good for a another two year deal and then that’s it.

That is how the club used to do it and it recognised that players in their thirties however good they once were can’t go on forever and performance inevitability drops off. So they were let go and younger players were brought in either from the academy or from outside. Players like Dennis Betts and Andy Farrell were not kept out of the side by someone in their mid thirties who fancied another season.

In the past players at the end of their careers were let go and replaced. Not offered new contracts until they could hardly walk. The club used to plan replacement of its players but now it looks like it doesn’t have any idea how to do it.

In my opinion the reason we have seen players offered new deals who should have be been let go like Clubb was is the club’s recruitment and scouting is failing to find suitable replacements coupled with a misplaced sense of loyalty (which also means it doesn’t look to replace average players with better quality ones regardless of age).

Tommy might be defying his age most of the time but the club should have sorted out a replacement long before now. Not gone with this “he’s a legend, he gets to decide when he retires” nonsense.

I think we will have the same with Faz and also Powell.

[Charriots Offiah]

My view is that when a player hits 30 the maximum length of contract should be 12 months. The rigours of modern day rugby have a substantial effect on the body and most players at that age are in decline.

[pedro]

Correct, cos he’s a Latics fan!

Not true, Welsby wasn't signed for Wigan because they had already signed Hanley, who along with Josh Thewliss who went to Wire were the better players at that junior age. Welsby supported both Wigan Warriors and Wigan Athletic as a kid.

Them 2 are a drop in the ocean. Wigan are losing out to saints with scholarship signings in droves of brilliant Wigan amateurs. I spend my weekends watching grass roots rugby so see this first hand.

wigan have signed the best scholarship player from the age group