whithers and lui lui

[pedro]

Fieldens 27!!!!! not in his prime for a prop yet

[cpwigan]

Actually it is about the quality of the average players you produce. You need juniors to be exposed to decent competition week in week out and then again in Academy and right through to First Grade. Only by having to execute under pressure will players become better. Watching Wigan trounce Hull U18s in the Academy whilst nice to watch was IMO totally unproductive for the Wigan lads. That happens far too often from the bottom to the top.

[yokozuna]

Great discussion lads. Enjoyed reading the intelligent comments from all sides.

One question though. The salary cap - surely that's going to stem any flow of youngsters coming through.

A kid who's a fairly decent footballer can earn a tidy packet playing in the lower leagues - even in the Conference. Only the true top class RL players can earn anything approaching a 'decent' salary for a world-class sportsman.

Is this not another factor that limits the number of youngsters coming through, particularly from outside the traditional RL regions?

I'm not talking silly money, just enough to keep the youngsters intertested (other than their love for the game of course).

What sort of salaries (and sponsorship deals) are available in Oz?

Or am I barking up completely the wrong tree?

[cpwigan]

I think what need to happen is that an incentive is built into the Salary Cap that encourages players to develop youngsters within their own service area. So for me that would be a club operating U21, U18, and Scholarship Schemes get X extra allowance on their salary cap. Players under the age of 21 that are developed / signed within a clubs service area are exempt from the salary cap and 50% or 75% exempt until the age of 24.
You have to have a system that induces clubs to develop homegrown talent and punishes those that do not. Franchises - Number of juniors playing RL within that service area, X years academy/scholarship schemes should be important criteria.
You could actually keep the cap low if you had those inducements. Eventually a well run club wiould be spending the majority of its cap on key players, paying more for better imports, buying in Union players perhaps. You may even get a transfer market going again if clubs ere not hampered so much by the cap.

[Webby1971]

I think everyone is being unfair on Withers and forgetting how Brian Noble has turned us around, have faith in the mans decisions. He's been a great player over the years and Ashton will gain from his presence, with Rads going who else do we have to guide him because although he's had a great season on attack I think he still has a lot to learn on defence and his positional play. I agree that it would be more pleasing to have more home grown talent in the side, lets not forget the 1986 Manley game, 1 - 13 were English but we simply don't have that talent available at the moment so I believe we need the likes of Barrett, Fletcher and even Withers for our young players to look up to, learn from and develop, would Shaun Edwards have been the player he was if he had not played alongside Kenny, Ella, Gregory??? Phil Clarke learned from Hanley and then Farrell from Clarke and if Farrell was still here I believe O'Loughlin would have benefitted more than he has, lets hope he can learn from Fletcher. It's all about getting the blend right of experience and youth and looking at the squad next season I think we're getting there and hopefully will benefit in future years and if that means our kids learning from Aussies then so be it. The only worrying thing is will we be able to hold on to our youngsters with this damn salary cap, this is a real issue the SL bosses need to address before we lose the cream to Union.

[Fraggle]

Webby1971 posted:
I think everyone is being unfair on Withers and forgetting how Brian Noble has turned us around, have faith in the mans decisions. He's been a great player over the years and Ashton will gain from his presence, with Rads going who else do we have to guide him because although he's had a great season on attack I think he still has a lot to learn on defence and his positional play.

I'd agree... except... Withers has never struck me as being the best defensive fullback around. He's been a decent attacking player, but nothing special in defence. Although I suppose that was comparing him with Rads, which really isn't any kind of contest! But I think Withers will be a decent cover players, for when Ashton gets injured or needs a rest, and also as cover for the likes of Goulding and Gleeson who will hopefully be getting more game time next season. And we have to remember that Calderwood and Ricahrds are hardly pensioners, our backline does lack a bit of experience....

[ChrisA]

GeoffN posted:

ChrisA posted:
Name me a player who has come through in recent history who could even come close to being compared to the likes of Hanley, or Gregory etc, players who you think you will look back and think, they where truely world class. I can't think of one, yet if you went back previous to their era, you would find plenty.

As Dave says, we're not really talking about "greatness", but about SL standard.
Having said that, you can really only call a player "great" towards the end of their career; in which category I'd put players like Farrell, Fielden & Radlinski.

My point is the overall standard is lower, there are no stand out players coming through other than Ashton. The rest are much of a muchness, just a conveyer line of very very average players who would offer nothing at all if we wanted to challenge for honours.

Our youth development is spot on, yet we still can't turn out any great number of young players who are actually good enough to wear a Wigan shirt. I don't see a new Betts, Clarke, Cassidy, Farrel, Radlinski, Edwards or Robinson coming through. The only player over the last 10 years who you can tell is destined for greatness is Ashton, you can see that blindfolded.

You can't say our youth setup is poor, because it isn't. My point is that even though we are doing our best, the young players at the moment do not seem to be at a level we where at 10 year ago as regards to talent and ability. If we had a Betts, Robinson or Farrel playing in the academy he would stand out a mile because the level at the moment is average at best.

I do agree that other clubs don't promote youth development like say Wigan or Leeds do, and the more clubs that do means more chance of unearthing young talent. I just think that the way the game is played and indeed coached nowadays takes away from some young players, it's all about percentages and completion rates and forward orientated.

Chris Ashton is the 1st player I've seen who does actually seem to have some attacking flair, he is a break from the norm, he is far above average and does things that no other young player I've seen at the club since Robinson could do. He is the exception, not the norm. And he just goes to show that the players with genuine talent and ability will get their chance.

If the talent isn't there, we can't use it, and at the moment we are going through a spell where we are not getting any exceptional talent coming through the ranks.