Let's not blame Klein!!

[Matthew]

Sorry Dave your argument seems to be that we lost because Klein made some bad decisions. The point is surely that if Noble had not decided to substitute Higham when he was causing havoc and if we had taken a certain two points with 5 minutes left none of this would have happened.

It all boils down to poor coaching and no leadership on the pitch, its Wigans fault they lost.

So the fact that Catalan got 4 points they shouldn't have had - and we lost by two points had nothing to do with it?

[mike binder]

remember thas robjonez rule book each ref as his own diffrent 1 ,and if they dont have 1 they just make the rules up as they go along.

[Matthew]

I am pretty sure the referee's rulebook looks something like:

THE RFL REFEREE'S RULEBOOK

1 RULES OF THE GAME

1.1 THE REFEREE IS ALWAYS RIGHT

1.2 IF THE REFEREE DID NOT SEE THE KNOCK ON, FORWARD PASS, OBSTRUCTION THEN IT DID NOT HAPPEN

1.3 IF ANOTHER REFEREE IS CRITICIZED FOR MAKING AN ALLEGED MISTAKE - OR NEVER-ENDING CAREER LONG SERIES OF MISTAKES (SEE RULE 1.1 AND 1.2) THEN ALL REFEREE'S ARE DUTY BOUND TO PATRONIZE FANS AND ACCUSE THEM OF BEING COMPLETELY BIASED TOWARDS THEIR OWN TEAM, EVEN IF THEY DIDN'T SEE THE INCIDENT IN QUESTION

1.4 IF ANY OTHER ISSUE SHOULD ARISE - PLEASE REFER TO RULE 1.1

[cpwigan]

Dave O. So far we only have 2 possible mistakes. The kick off was it a knock on or not and the dragged into touch. The challenge for the kick leading to the try was legal. At the time I presumed not but having seen a still photograph and a tv clip, it was.

So we had enough opportunities to negate Klein. For most of that game it was definetly Wigan v Cats and that alone. On every try Cats scored we made mistakes. Coyle on the first failed to take his man. The scrum try, Mathers or Richard failed to take their man. The crash ball. Every team playing CAts knows they use this tactic when they are centre field. We let them do it. The final try, Calderwood lost it.

If we start hurling blame then lets blame Pat Richards. He missed 2 kicks. I am not blaming him BTW but why do others not. What about the decision not to take 2 points late on? Nobby / Lockers?

I expect the referee to make 2 maybe 4 mistakes in a game. I do not rate Stuart Cummings. I do not rate the RFL full stop but the fact remains we lost that game.

[cpwigan]

And I wouldn't wish to get on at you about Wigans current tactics of holding down longer than anyone else, but as someone who has done the stats for the Australian team it gets me down a bit that the useless referees don't pull Wigan for it more often than they do. Still it was good to hear a mate of mine who is a Bulls supporter complain to me recently about Wigan holding down, and that it got him down as well nowadays. Could it be that this tactic of holding down, for longer than anyone else, is the only tactic that Brion Noble took with him from Bradford to Wigan? Becase my mate the Bulls supporter never noticed this tactic being used by the Bulls whilst Noble was there, and I certainly pointed the fact out to him on many occasions, but he can now notices Wigan doing it. Perhaps he is like a lot of other supporters, and only really watches his own team perform both when on attack and also whilst defending, and he doesn't really see the opposition perform. The means might justfy the method and the tactic as long as it means the team you support wins, but it isn't too good for rugby league overall! I wasn't too upset that Leeds lost last Saturday, as it only serves to keep us on our toes! All you could take from what I say is that although we certainly need referees, do they really have to be organised by Stuart Cummins who when I spoke to him last came over to me as a useless thick individual despite being a school teacher.

That is an email from a Leeds supporter after we beat them to me. Any similarity between that and what some here are posting after we got beat?

[emperorkel]

The sooner we stop blaminig the referee for losing a match ends the better. We lost because we made mistakes and poor decisions.

The ref, in your opinion made mistakes but Catalans still had to score the tries and we still had the chance to stop them and WE failed.

If we had taken the two points and Pat had kicked the two he missed we would have won that nothin to do with the referee

[GeoffN]

The sooner we stop blaminig the referee for losing a match ends the better. We lost because we made mistakes and poor decisions.

The ref, in your opinion made mistakes but Catalans still had to score the tries and we still had the chance to stop them and WE failed.

If we had taken the two points and Pat had kicked the two he missed we would have won that nothin to do with the referee

I agree that we should have done better to play the ref out of the game, but the fact remains that without Klein's mistakes we would have won.
Incidentally, there was also his wiping their tackle count during their last attack (in the North-East corner); no-one I've spoken to knows how that came about.

[DaveO]

The sooner we stop blaminig the referee for losing a match ends the better. We lost because we made mistakes and poor decisions.

Too easy to sat that in this situation IMO.

We were leading 26-14 with something like 5 mins to go and if the refs decisions get them into a position to score the winning try you can hardly blame the players for that.

The ref, in your opinion made mistakes but Catalans still had to score the tries and we still had the chance to stop them and WE failed.

It is a lot easier to score at try at one end of the field than the other and you must have possession to score (i.e. the knock that wasn't given gave them possession they should not have had).

If we had taken the two points and Pat had kicked the two he missed we would have won that nothin to do with the referee

Another over simplification. Of course it had something to do with the referee. He was however ONE factor in the loss, not the only one.

Why people have to take a black or white view of this I don't know. We contributed to our own downfall but so did Klien. That, I think, is a reasonable take in events on Friday.

Saying it was all out fault is akin to saying if we had scored 100 points we'd have won. It just ignores the obvious failings of the ref.

Dave

[cpwigan]

Which was greater Dave? The failings of the referee or our team? Mr Ganson who I loathe but as I posted here that he had a good game v Leeds made some big mistakes too but they did not lead to tries. We won and everybody was happy. Well Wigan fans.

[Matthew]

The problem is that in such a close game - klein's "decisions" were essentially the difference between the two sides. Had he spotted the knock on - it is unlikely that Catalan would have scored the winning try and won the game.

I agree that we shouldn't have surrendered such a lead - however if the referee is giving the opposition field position by making poor decisions then we have cause for complaint.

Ganson didn't have a great game at Wigan vs Leeds - however despite that he wasn't the difference between the sides.

Rugby league is supposed to be 13-a-side not 13 vs 14.