Karl Pryce

[Wigan_forever1985]

What worrys me is some fans obsession with size Sure big players offer a positive but they also offer negatives too. Likewise small players. Some fans seem obsessed with the idea of Pat and Pryce, forgetting that Pryce is better on the left but also not looking at the whole picture. Take the forwards. Lockers is not mssive but his agility, ability to get around the pitch, speed etc eliminates the holes that the big forwards naturally leave. A team is IMO about balance. Most fans seem to ignore the TEAM part and the idea of balance.

Circumstances meant Prycey got to play against the Crusaders. Had something not happened, he would not have played. He did and fair play to him BUT that is the reality he is a squad player filling in and doing OK.

Agree CP, Pyrce has a major problem with grubbers all the deck, being such a big guy he struggles to dip down to collect them, this is obviously counteracted by his advantage in the air, but a smart half back wouldn't kick high for this reason, so being massive its always a good thing

[cpwigan]

With all due respect Bri the job of a winger has changed. Bevan was the classic historical winger but he bears no relation to Pat Richards in terms of workload. Therein lies the big difference IMO. Wingers today are expected to be an extra forward at times.

[DaveO]

And, when I was making the point about MM being the coach, I would suggest he has a far greater knowledge about invidual players strengths and weakneses than any of us do. That's his job. We only see a narrow "spectators" view of things - he has to look at individuals + how they interact with the team as a whole -not easy.

While he has the job because he's clearly a highly qualified coach someone such as yourself who has watched all those players you mention must have an opinion of what makes a good winger, loose forward and so on.

You must also at times clearly be able to see some players are better than others. Are you afraid to express those opinions because you don't hold a coaching certificate?

Of course not so I don't think adding the corollary to any player debate that the coach picked him so must be right is a good idea. We do have a fans view and if we didn't there would not be a forum. However lets not forget some fans have been watching the game longer than MM has been on the planet never mind been a coach (!), do have some worthwhile knowledge and also that coaches sometimes make mistakes.

Dave

[DaveO]

I agree.

Another thing that I find interesting is how some of the Ainscough haters are so fond of Pryce. As you know I am no fan of Ainscough (I have explained why do dont need to go there - dont want another 8 page thread ) but one of my arguments was always that the tries he scored last season did not really matter. This was because I was of the belief that many of these would have been scored by any winger and it was his overall game that I was more interested in, which I wasnt a fan of. As a result I was of the belief that any out of the ordinary try scoring ability (which I dont believe he had but some did)did not compensate for his weaknesses in other areas. Others had a similar opinion but with some of these this seems to go out of the window with Pryce and try scoring is all that matters.

There is certainly double standards with regard Pryce and Aincough. When Ainscough was in the team in 2009 and scoring four tries in a match they were all walk-ins and that prove nothing yet Pryce does the same and he's the form back. :eusa16:

What I would say is no matter who the winger is, Ainscough, Goulding or Pryce while scoring walk-ins doesn't tell you much about the winger the fact many of the tries they do score are walk-ins is no stick to beat the player up with.

Where you and I differ is that I see a further anomaly with the Ainscough v Pryce debate on rlfans in that Ainscough does indeed score the difficult to score tries. I know this because I have actually seen him do it. The cracker v Saints where he squeezed in what seemed an impossible gap being one such example. Pryce has yet to convince me has that something special in his attacking play that I see in Ainscough.

It may come with confidence but as I said previously claims he's the form back or gone ahead of Goulding are exaggerations based on what we have seen so far. He's doing his job but he's yet to convince me there is anything special about him. If he starts swatting players off and carrying three players over the line for tries then great but this we have yet to see.

Dave

[gpartin]

Might as well stick to the bare facts about how crap he is, I get a response that way. DaveO does my follow up post constitute reasonable discussion in your eyes now? If not I can rewrite it but this time add a little bit about how he's a nice bloke who's good at golf and video games just to give a little balance to my point out a bit lol. Seriously regarding my first point can anyone see Pryce doing anything with a decent SL club because I really can't. Feel free to ignore any part of this message.

[cpwigan]

I guess with Pryce, people see potential BUT as yet it is well hidden. I think you said it GP, KP does not scare anybody which HE SHOULD do. Manu Vatuvei or Karl Pryce running at you?

[DaveO]

Might as well stick to the bare facts about how crap he is, I get a response that way. DaveO does my follow up post constitute reasonable discussion in your eyes now?

I didn't think you were being unreasonable before because I am not the sensitive type that thinks you can't call it as you see it. I was merely trying to point out to the poster I replied to there was only one comment they could possibly object to.

If not I can rewrite it but this time add a little bit about how he's a nice bloke who's good at golf and video games just to give a little balance to my point out a bit lol. Seriously regarding my first point can anyone see Pryce doing anything with a decent SL club because I really can't. Feel free to ignore any part of this message.

I know exactly where you are coming from because there is a tendency not to want to say anything bad about any player particularly on rlfans. I am not sure if it's because some people are treading on eggshells in case they incur certain other posters wrath or they really do view the worlds through cherry & white glasses.

Dave

[cpwigan]

Unfortunately Dave I think a lot of the brilliant work done by RLfans Wigan lads (I defy anybody not to be impressed by the flag campaign) actually has a counter negative impact in that the posters meet in real life and become very good friends (nothing wrong with that) but then they in effect become a clique afraid to disagree with each other and trample on anybody who dare disagree by sheer numbers. You start to get the in jokes etc which new posters are confused by.

[gpartin]

Nevermind you not being sensitive, I certainly am and it really hurts my feelings when nobody replies to my in depth analysis of the state of affairs at our beloved club. seriously, agree with both of you, what genuinely annoys me about sites like that is that you can put together a reasoned argument for example comparing the entire list of stats for two players showing beyond doubt that one player outperformed the other and before you know it you've got 5 different people with similar names all coming out in support of one another when you weren't even arguing in the first place. Usually when this happens they'll focus on one stat like 'yes he made less metres but he tripped over his shoelace on his own line and would have gone the full length of the field otherwise probably making 12 tackle busts on the way.' and you just know that they've been on the same coach following a game and reached a consensus that no amount of logic or reason will change. Oh yes and he didn't even realise he had his T-shirt on inside out for all that time.

[GeoffN]

Unfortunately Dave I think a lot of the brilliant work done by RLfans Wigan lads (I defy anybody not to be impressed by the flag campaign) actually has a counter negative impact in that the posters meet in real life and become very good friends (nothing wrong with that) but then they in effect become a clique afraid to disagree with each other and trample on anybody who dare disagree by sheer numbers. You start to get the in jokes etc which new posters are confused by.

I'm not sure that's altogether true, cp - I've recently started going to the flag meetings and don't feel they're at all cliquey - in fact we have the same arguments with Rogues & others that we have online!

I think it's easy to see cliques where none really exist - in fact weren't some people a while back accusing you, me & DaveO of being part of a clique, even though we rarely agree about anything?