Riots

[cpwigan]

Something people need to think about is that Cameron, Clegg, Milliband will tell you our policies will change X, Y and Z overnight.

I know Cameron will tell you he is bringing changes into schools. Let me tell you the changes are relatively meaningless and OFSTED will continue to play a political game where they say the children in every school are wonderfully behaved. So if that is the case then the politicians saying schools need to do X, Y and Z must be wrong OR is somebody lying?

I daresay the police will have similar experiences and other public servants of how politicians pretending and playing games achieves nothing.

Anybody who thinks you can change attitude and behaviour overnight is a con artist and a liar.

It will take decades!!

We could start with those condemning this behaviour taking a lead rather than stealing and looting from the country via expenses or our bankers behaving properly.

[Kiwiseddon]

CP I'm fairly sure that the Govt is paying for all out overtime. Yesterday, I think every Bobby who works at our Nick was on duty at some point. Some on double time.
My Force certainly cannot afford that as we're a small Force with very limited personnel and resources. What I do think that we've done though ( at a local level ) is maximise the resources to absolutely ensure that nothing kicks off. I'm quite proud of our respective Bosses for taking a hard line immediately. As a result, we've had lots of Bobbies walking around with little to do, looking at empty housing estates and an empty Town Centre. Having said that, better that than no Bobbies on duty and a riot starting.
The only real issue is the bill for all this Policing. I know that as soon as the Govt stop funding us, we'll have no one on double time and the numbers on duty will be slashed dramatically.

Touch wood, it all seems to be slowing down now as the country cannot afford to pay for the Policing required for very much longer.

[cpwigan]

Other than the initial incident I think we saw a wave of behaviour that had a very limited life span. As you say, lucky because whatever Cameron and co say

Looting/Stealing was an obvious exploitation of the situation, others would have been behaving differently to the point some bizarrely just enjoyed being 'part' of something happening and congregating without doing anything which is why I am not sure Cameron should be so hasty to condemn the police.

If any trouble occurs in a school, masses of innocent students swarm to where they think something is happening, obviously we deal with issues quickly and our environment is very restricted. Any adults ever rubber necked at the scene of an incident? The police understand and are trained to deescalate and minimise disruption, something politicians have no idea about and never help with their stupid language such as 'fightback' and so forth.

Any fool can say bring in the army, beat the living daylights out of the blighters. It is the Police, the Teachers who have been dealing for decades with the society moulded by all of us but particularly politicians. Talk is cheap, dealing with things is far more difficult.

[cpwigan]

One good man has stood up to say it as it is

Insp Bob Cantrell, of Greater Manchester Police

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-ma ... r-14491145

Speaking about future police cuts, he said he hoped the government would be "there for us".

Mr Cantrell said: "Some of the kit is what I've had for 17 years.

"There are lighter, better things on the market now, but they cost money.

"It would be nice to have better protective equipment and something we could run faster in that would offer better protection and wouldn't be as hot."

Police riot gear includes shields and body armour, including thigh and shoulder guards.

"We've been there for the government. I hope in the next few weeks and months that the government is there for us."

Incidentally, Graham Stringer (Labour) should be told to be quiet by the Labour Party.

[cpwigan]

Glad to see Hugh Orde defending the Police Service. The attacks on their efforts by politicians have been nothing short of disgraceful.

Our Armed Forces return with dead bodies of comrades and tell you how the equipment could be far better. The police put themselves on the line and tell you how the equipment could be far better. So men/women are putting their lives on the line to be criticised by who? politicians who steal money from Joe Public and have an easy life.

[gpartin]

Something people need to think about is that Cameron, Clegg, Milliband will tell you our policies will change X, Y and Z overnight.

I know Cameron will tell you he is bringing changes into schools. Let me tell you the changes are relatively meaningless and OFSTED will continue to play a political game where they say the children in every school are wonderfully behaved. So if that is the case then the politicians saying schools need to do X, Y and Z must be wrong OR is somebody lying?

I daresay the police will have similar experiences and other public servants of how politicians pretending and playing games achieves nothing.

Anybody who thinks you can change attitude and behaviour overnight is a con artist and a liar.

It will take decades!!

I said a similar thing after a Nick Clegg speech a bit ago where he was talking about the poverty gap. On the one hand he was justifying cuts to public services saying they had done nothing to inprove the poverty gap and then later on in his speech he was saying that whatever they did we wouldn't see the results of their changes for decades because that's how long it takes and the poverty gap now is as a result of changes brought in in the early 80's.

It's the same as what we were talking about the other day with te banking crisis, this is suddenly the worst time for banking since 2008 or whatever it was according to the Tories and it will effect the economy because it benefits them to say that now. Politicians claim allsorts of credit when its not theres. The BNP candidate here in morley constantly talks about stuff he has campaigned for that has been implemented, what he doesn't say is that it was labour who implemented the policies.

Apologies to the police officers on here, I know that on the whole you do a good job under difficult circumstances and I've actually defended the police on a number of occasions, I shouldn't have tarred you all with the same brush based on my experiences and I genuinely feel for people like Kiwiseddon who give their time up to protect people's homes and property. I'm genuinely sorry.

Gaz

[Wes]

Without having any political bias to this debate it is being used a political point scoring mechanism rather than stopping the riots. In all honesty every MP could have stayed on holiday and the police would have still sorted this out in the same manner and time frame.

Whats laughable is that we have become a soft country, we give people with nothing too much for free for political votes, whether that be benefits housing or soft jail sentences.

What I think to be honest is the system has been wrong for years regarding budgets, the forces for certain worked in the way that if your yearly budget was say £10 and you only spent £7 the following year your budget was cut to £7 which encouraged stupid spending in year ends to keep maximum budget! Why not just spend what you need to a sensible level.

I would also guarantee when Labour where in power and a lot of people even now with Tories in power can identify stupid money being spent on the wrong things and can identify a lot of waste and poor organising!

As a country we did and do need to reign in on the spending now whether the tories where the better party for that or labour who knows only time will tell.

Last point though Im starting to wish Labour where in power now because they are bugging me as opposition so annoying for the sake of it.

I think that had no political bias

[Kiwiseddon]

Something people need to think about is that Cameron, Clegg, Milliband will tell you our policies will change X, Y and Z overnight.

I know Cameron will tell you he is bringing changes into schools. Let me tell you the changes are relatively meaningless and OFSTED will continue to play a political game where they say the children in every school are wonderfully behaved. So if that is the case then the politicians saying schools need to do X, Y and Z must be wrong OR is somebody lying?

I daresay the police will have similar experiences and other public servants of how politicians pretending and playing games achieves nothing.

Anybody who thinks you can change attitude and behaviour overnight is a con artist and a liar.

It will take decades!!

I said a similar thing after a Nick Clegg speech a bit ago where he was talking about the poverty gap. On the one hand he was justifying cuts to public services saying they had done nothing to inprove the poverty gap and then later on in his speech he was saying that whatever they did we wouldn't see the results of their changes for decades because that's how long it takes and the poverty gap now is as a result of changes brought in in the early 80's.

It's the same as what we were talking about the other day with te banking crisis, this is suddenly the worst time for banking since 2008 or whatever it was according to the Tories and it will effect the economy because it benefits them to say that now. Politicians claim allsorts of credit when its not theres. The BNP candidate here in morley constantly talks about stuff he has campaigned for that has been implemented, what he doesn't say is that it was labour who implemented the policies.

Apologies to the police officers on here, I know that on the whole you do a good job under difficult circumstances and I've actually defended the police on a number of occasions, I shouldn't have tarred you all with the same brush based on my experiences and I genuinely feel for people like Kiwiseddon who give their time up to protect people's homes and property. I'm genuinely sorry.

Gaz

No worries Gaz. It seems that the experiences you've had with the Police give you fair cause to feel the way that you do about some Police Officers. I know a few in my Force who make me cringe with the way they go about things. I also know some fantastic Coppers.

Like me........I'm AWESOME

[gpartin]

I totally agree Wes about money being wasted in certain areas under Labour, in Hull they had these City Ambassadors who did very little and will probably be highlighted as a waste of money now and lose their jobs. However making people redundant as a way of saving money and stimulating an economy has been tried and failed time and time again. Having experienced how understaffed the dss are now and other government departments adding thousands of people to the dole queue is false economy. The national debt has not decreased under The Tories, borrowing levels have gone up and morale has gone down massively since thy came into power. Ive never known a government make so many u turns over silly things yet ignore the evidence in front of them that cutting public services is false economy. Blaming bad weather and national holidays as the tories have so far managed to do will only work for so long. If a person is planning on buying a tv and the weather is bad they will still buy the tv.

[southernpie]

Having recently finished working in the public sector, I will submit that the biggest problem, (with regards spending and budget cuts), is that too much money is wasted on bureaucracy and when the cuts come it is nearly always frontline staff that lose their jobs / don't get the best equipment. As the budgeting is done by the bureaucrats, they are unlikely to put themselves out of a job. They also fuel an environment of pen pushing and target hunting that detracts from the core reason for the service and requires more bureaucrats to be employed.
There are not enough hospital beds/ nurses, but there are several erroneous layers of admin management. There are cuts to Fire Engines but Manchester Brigades Headquarters Building is three times the size it was ten years ago and still growing. Policemen are careful about what charges they make (who they arrest) as 1 incident means they spend the rest of their shift doing the paperwork. In my wife's school there used to be about 15 admin staff and 70 teachers, now there are as many admin staff as teachers.
This has all come about no matter which party has been in Government.