WiganWarriorsFans.com

BriH wrote:Is NZ Warriors the right club for Sam to shine?

Yes, that is a question even our fans debate about. We have two very good NRL fullbacks in Kevin Locke and Glen Fisiiahi. If we do sign Tomkins, it has been said that Locke would be moved to 5/8 and Fisiiahi would be to the Wing. Our team plays a very unconventional style of football and is known for adlib football which has been somewhat stamped down in recent years, but we often are at our most dangerous when we do play with no fear and offload at will.

From the NZ Warriors fans perspective he would be a better buy if he came over as a 5/8 due to our depth in the fullback position. It also brings up the question on whether Locke or Fisiiahi would want to move out to other positions other than their favourite fullback position, and there is a general fear that they may move and look for opportunities elsewhere.

We have debated the Tomkins topic to death over at our forum. We noticed that he gets his hands on the ball a lot...amongst the top in ESL. Would he get the same ball at the NZ Warriors? Debateable.

One thing is for sure though...If our backline consisted of:
1. Tomkins
2. Fisiiahi
3. Hurrell
4. Neilsen
5. Vatuvei
6. Locke
7. Johnson

we would have one of the fastest backline in all of NRL, if not in the history of the NRL. There is a lot of speed to burn in that lineup with the possible exception of Neilsen who is a defensive rock.

Kittwazzer wrote:
Just registered, awaiting confirmation. For anyone interested, NZ Warriors forum is available via Tapatalk!

Thanks for joining and gracing us with your presence and your knowledge about Tomkins and ESL. Appreciated!

DaveO wrote:
We have had similar deals put in place for Hock and Mossop who are going to Paramatta but I am very sceptical any UK player who is a success in the NRL will want to come back after a couple of years for a much lower salary.

What is the Salary cap in ESL? It seems that up until this year ESL was a lucrative comp for some NRL players to goto who were heading into the twilight of their career. Has the glut of that stopped now? By our calculations Tomkins was on 300k pounds. If we are paying him 1m(NZD) (and even that figure has been heavily debated and shut down by our CEO that equates to roughtly 450k pounds.

DaveO wrote: The money is not much use and with the stupid rules in our Under 19 competition any player older than that could only get a game in our 1st team and players younger than 19 won't figure that much anyway. It may be a good life experience for young players to spend some time in a different country but I don't see this as a big thing to shout about.

Kittwazzer explained us about your u19 eligibily issues. Shocking really. How exactly are first grade players returning from injury supposed to get match fitness under your current competition requirements? I think the experience in a different country would be a great carrot for young players. NZ Warriors has great up and coming juniors (we have dominated our U20s comp for a few years and won 2 in a row) and it would be great for these players to goto our sister club and experience life in a different country. I know i would have loved to have done that

DaveO wrote:
Depends if these contracts about coming back after two years have any substance to them.

Sam signed a deal to keep him here for three seasons and it seems he is off after two so it's things like that that make some of us sceptical about the idea he's contracted to come back in a couple of years.

If he can earn far more money and likes the lifestyle why would he want to give that up?

First of all Auckland weather is not that much 'nicer' than London ...with the negotiations its become obvious that we are not actually buying out his contract but rather getting him on a loan for a couple of years. I think after what the club has done for him, he owes them that. After that i wouldnt mind seeing him come back again to the NZ Warriors With all the drama surrounding him, it seems that it was only a matter of time before he left, either to Union or NRL.

I figure he'll play for NZW for the 2 years then return to Wigan for the final year to re-establish his price in the UK market. After that, rugby union.

DaveO wrote:Depends if these contracts about coming back after two years have any substance to them.

As much substance as any contract I suppose... so changeable when convenient then. It will come down to how well Wigan and NZ manage their relationship, and if it's genuine or for show.

We have a very hard time attracting talent to NZ and have no choice but to take a different tack. If it's to work we won't be able to shaft our partner. We'll want our players back and not joining other NRL clubs -- contracts with substance are needed at our end too. Still, I'm sure there'll be the odd rogue each way.

DaveO wrote:"Concerned" is putting it mildly.

As you should be, DaveO. I'd be most concerned about those you don't have a sister-club agreement with.

The cap will keep going up a fair bit yet, and if expansion stays on the cards another 50 first grade players will be needed. Short of cloning, ESL and Aussie rugby union will be targeted, with a side of fringe NZ Super Rugby, and general IRB Sevens talent. Else a flood of sub-par park footy players will be on show.

A lot will depend on the RFL's ability to stabilise and grow league in the UK. I'm not overconfident in that I'm afraid.

PolarBob wrote:

DaveO wrote:Depends if these contracts about coming back after two years have any substance to them.

As much substance as any contract I suppose... so changeable when convenient then. It will come down to how well Wigan and NZ manage their relationship, and if it's genuine or for show.

We have a very hard time attracting talent to NZ and have no choice but to take a different tack. If it's to work we won't be able to shaft our partner. We'll want our players back and not joining other NRL clubs -- contracts with substance are needed at our end too. Still, I'm sure there'll be the odd rogue each way.

DaveO wrote:"Concerned" is putting it mildly.

As you should be, DaveO. I'd be most concerned about those you don't have a sister-club agreement with.

The cap will keep going up a fair bit yet, and if expansion stays on the cards another 50 first grade players will be needed. Short of cloning, ESL and Aussie rugby union will be targeted, with a side of fringe NZ Super Rugby, and general IRB Sevens talent. Else a flood of sub-par park footy players will be on show.

A lot will depend on the RFL's ability to stabilise and grow league in the UK. I'm not overconfident in that I'm afraid.

I'm inclined to agree with you on all that Bob. Only positive for us is that all the NRL experience should improve our international game although God know how McNamara will monitor it. He doesn't seem to know many players in the English game!

tajhay wrote:

DaveO wrote:
We have had similar deals put in place for Hock and Mossop who are going to Paramatta but I am very sceptical any UK player who is a success in the NRL will want to come back after a couple of years for a much lower salary.

What is the Salary cap in ESL? It seems that up until this year ESL was a lucrative comp for some NRL players to goto who were heading into the twilight of their career. Has the glut of that stopped now? By our calculations Tomkins was on 300k pounds. If we are paying him 1m(NZD) (and even that figure has been heavily debated and shut down by our CEO that equates to roughtly 450k pounds.

The salary cap just changed slightly but hasn't really gone up. It was £1.6m but with additions for certain players such as a single long serving player which along with others put it up to £1.85m. If you had some home grown players, a certain number of senior and junior internationals and so on you got the full £1.85m. Wigan probably qualified for all that. Next year it will just be £1.85m I believe.

In 2014 the NRL cap will be AUD $6.3m, which is £3.8m and NZD $7.46 roughly.

Using the calculators on the web £300K is just shy of AUD $500k and NZD $568k

It used to be lucrative to come here because the exchange rate was so good for Aussies and Kiwi's. Now the pound has tanked and in particular the Aussie dollar has risen in value it works the other way.

DaveO wrote: The money is not much use and with the stupid rules in our Under 19 competition any player older than that could only get a game in our 1st team and players younger than 19 won't figure that much anyway. It may be a good life experience for young players to spend some time in a different country but I don't see this as a big thing to shout about.

Kittwazzer explained us about your u19 eligibily issues. Shocking really. How exactly are first grade players returning from injury supposed to get match fitness under your current competition requirements?

Over the years since SL started the rules have progressively changed for the worse. At one time we used to run an open age 2nd team in an Alliance competition but that was killed off years ago. We eventually ended up with a junior competition that changed age qualification occasionally but allowed a small number of over age players to play.

When the U19 rules came in I think the idea was SL clubs would link up with clubs in lower leagues here and send players there in some way but it has not materialised. Understandably the lower league clubs have ambitions of their own and were not prepared to be feeder clubs for SL sides to all intents and purposes.

For some idiotic reason Wigan voted in favour of the U19 rules but our coach has moaned about them since in particular with reference to Gelling who can't get a game outside the 1st team due to these rules.

I think the experience in a different country would be a great carrot for young players. NZ Warriors has great up and coming juniors (we have dominated our U20s comp for a few years and won 2 in a row) and it would be great for these players to goto our sister club and experience life in a different country. I know i would have loved to have done that

It's a good experience. I have lived abroad for periods (visited NZ as well) and it's a good thing to do. How much of this will be seen as a benefit by fans who are primarily are concerned with 1st team football is hard to tell. Probably of little interest I would say.

DaveO wrote:
Depends if these contracts about coming back after two years have any substance to them.

Sam signed a deal to keep him here for three seasons and it seems he is off after two so it's things like that that make some of us sceptical about the idea he's contracted to come back in a couple of years.

If he can earn far more money and likes the lifestyle why would he want to give that up?

First of all Auckland weather is not that much 'nicer' than London ...with the negotiations its become obvious that we are not actually buying out his contract but rather getting him on a loan for a couple of years. I think after what the club has done for him, he owes them that. After that i wouldnt mind seeing him come back again to the NZ Warriors With all the drama surrounding him, it seems that it was only a matter of time before he left, either to Union or NRL.

If it is a loan deal as you say and if that is how it is presented here we will just have to wait and see what happens at the end of it. In the meantime unless you send over Locke, Sam will leave a huge hole in our side and how that is addressed will be the immediate concern of most fans.

Like everyone else I find myself utterly confused by the club letting Sam go.
Why not just say to him -'if you try to go we will see you in court'.
Isn't it about time one of our top teams actually stood up to be counted on these crazy contracts.

By the way, have I missed something, or is there any chance that Wayne might be going with him to NZ.

LORENZO wrote:Like everyone else I find myself utterly confused by the club letting Sam go.
Why not just say to him -'if you try to go we will see you in court'.
Isn't it about time one of our top teams actually stood up to be counted on these crazy contracts.

I think they should. The price might be you lose the players services anyway in that they go into sulk, refuse to play or as happened with the player who Salford signed recently they end up out on loan out of the way. It's a price I think will have to paid at some point otherwise the players will be just taking the club for a ride.

I also don't see how a coach can plan for the future if he doesn't know who will be next to ask for and be granted a release from his contract.

By the way, have I missed something, or is there any chance that Wayne might be going with him to NZ.

There have been rumours but they seem to have gone quiet.

Ok if Sam wants to go to the NRL why would he settle for the NZ Warriors who are about Widnes level in their league? Not being rude but you need Sam more than he needs you