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Mike wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2024 8:41 pm Those posting about why we start so poorly - have you ever considered the opposition being fully fresh and making maximum effort might be something to do with it? It's definitely harder to break down a fresh, motivated side in the first 20 than it is against a tired pressured side in the last 20. Games often go like this.

But anyway, clearly French doesn't work at 6 and w e have to change the coach...

I’m not worried about us breaking teams down early but we have to earn the right to later in the game. I think we will see a different Wigan team next week, defensively more like the team that played against Penrith and attacking tight around the ruck in the first half. We need to concentrate on taking the gas out of HKR and if we do that scoring opportunities will come in the second period.

josie andrews wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2024 8:52 pm

Bob the Builder wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2024 6:06 pm Not to add a downer, but what exactly does Kaide Ellis add to our team as a loose forward? Before you respond, please think about some of the world class loose forwards we have had. We have a back three of Farrell (past his best) next second rower {inexperienced / undecided) and Ellis at lock (ineffective in attack). This is gonna bite us in the bum.

He played a lot today at prop he is a different type of loose than what we are used to, ie Lockers, Farrell, Hanley. Now Bateman was never a LF IMO

O'Neil and leeming were on together for a while. I guess O'Neil was at loose for that?

Mike wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2024 3:54 am

josie andrews wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2024 8:52 pm

Bob the Builder wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2024 6:06 pm Not to add a downer, but what exactly does Kaide Ellis add to our team as a loose forward? Before you respond, please think about some of the world class loose forwards we have had. We have a back three of Farrell (past his best) next second rower {inexperienced / undecided) and Ellis at lock (ineffective in attack). This is gonna bite us in the bum.

He played a lot today at prop he is a different type of loose than what we are used to, ie Lockers, Farrell, Hanley. Now Bateman was never a LF IMO

O'Neil and leeming were on together for a while. I guess O'Neil was at loose for that?

Yes, O’Neill went to loose & Ellis went to prop due to Dupree’s eye injury.

First half we need a bit more line speed, better discipline, better contact in the tackle.

KR will try and move the ball around and offload so we need to close the space and be better in contact.

Confident we'll see a better 1st half than last time we played them. I liked the option of O'Neil and Leeming on at the same time and Nsemba is getting better and better especially in defence. MAgo also continue to add so much coming off the bench, Havard getting up to speed


Decision to be made on the pack selection between Hill and Byrne I think. Since Liam came back from suspension he's been largely underwhelming and not played anywhere near the minutes or quality I expected . He's never really got started and far too often has an error in him. He has all the physical attributes but he really needs to focus on all aspects of his discipline and concentration. It's a shame Hill has been so lightly used as I think he'd be a safer option against KR but may be a little undercooked at the moment.

Ipinwigan wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2024 6:14 pm

Bob the Builder wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2024 6:06 pm Not to add a downer, but what exactly does Kaide Ellis add to our team as a loose forward? Before you respond, please think about some of the world class loose forwards we have had. We have a back three of Farrell (past his best) next second rower {inexperienced / undecided) and Ellis at lock (ineffective in attack). This is gonna bite us in the bum.

I think we are just going for size, props all over the place, bit like Bradford of about 20 years ago.
I thought Ellis was ok today, but not a passing 13 of the past.

Neither was Hanley.

I think you may be right about about going for size, but maybe that's the evolution of RL? Nothing to say you actually NEED people of a certain size/skillset in set positions.

Pretty good display (eventually) on what looked like an over-watered pitch with the grass too short. Only Keighran seemed to work out how to execute a grubber kick that didn't skid on.
Not sure why Ellis was singled out - he's been excellent this season. Since Lockers retired, we've tended to have a LF that's more like a prop than a playmaker and that's a coaching choice and also an availability problem. (And I do include Smithies in that!)
Agree with everything about Byrne and I did wonder if it had occurred say, after 15 minutes, whether it might have been a red. He never seems to learn from his mistakes and if he doesn't buck up I would have thought it likely that he'd be on his way. Havard still looks to be a wonder - not that much to him but the yards he makes!
I like our left side a lot - Wardle, Farrell and the brilliant Marshall are a handful for any team.
I'm yet to be wholly won over by Leeming - lots of talent but we seem to lose focus when O'Neill gets spelled.
If the above is all we've got to worry about, then the season looks really promising.

We looked so much better and quicker as a team when oneill went to loose and Leeming stayed at hooker. I think Ellis has been immense this season but he looked great back at prop in that second half

For me I think we built into the game after an average first half . As for Leeming I think the game changes when he comes on as he offers far more in attack than O’Neil . Also those who say French isn’t a half don’t know what they are talking about , crikey I can’t remember a better play making 6 since Trent Barrett . And long may he stay .

To be absolutely fair, I thought French looked really good and perhaps more importantly, this was the first time this season that French and Field seemed to know instinctively what the other was doing and we looked devastating when it all came together.
Take the point about Leeming but there is a hole in defence when O'Neill is spelled and that's the concern.

Mike wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2024 8:41 pm Those posting about why we start so poorly - have you ever considered the opposition being fully fresh and making maximum effort might be something to do with it? It's definitely harder to break down a fresh, motivated side in the first 20 than it is against a tired pressured side in the last 20. Games often go like this.

The issues early on in games seem to.me to have little to do with the opposition but just poor play by Wigan.

I am sure if someone looked at the stats it would show a high error count such and penalty count in the first half of recent games.

While teams can force errors onto the the other side I really don't think that is what is happening here and Byrne's sin bin is a good example of the stupid unforced errors.