Riots

[gpartin]

Not sure if ut was intended but Your point about teachers actually goes against the rest of your argument. Teachers were spending too much time dealing with paperwork and discipline rather than teaching when lower paid admin staff are just as capable of filling in forms and telling kids off. Teachers were complaining about the situation as it was and changes were made to address the issues. Having more civilian staff doing paperwork would free them up for being out on the streets being police. The fact there are so many admin staff in schools now shows how much extra work teacher were doing.

[southernpie]

Sorry, What I was trying to say was there has been a move towards too much unnecessary paperwork (bureaucracy) being created hence needing more admin staff, therefore eating into the budget. The teachers now have more admin staff, the police need more, but the root cause is the same too much bureaucracy.

[Kiwiseddon]

Sooooo tired! Not that i'm looking for sympathy, (except that I absolutely am) but I've now done ten days straight and might get one day off in the next six. These riots are a nightmare. I haven't seen my daughter properly for best part of a week, let alone my wife.

We're going through it. And yes it's what we signed up for. But I've never experienced exhaustion before and it's no fun.

I'm sure I'm just a whinging copper and there's plenty of people who are really going through it at the moment.....Tony H springs to mind but I'm knackered. Need a rest!!!!!!

[trotski_tgwu]

Sooooo tired! Not that i'm looking for sympathy, (except that I absolutely am) but I've now done ten days straight and might get one day off in the next six. These riots are a nightmare. I haven't seen my daughter properly for best part of a week, let alone my wife.

We're going through it. And yes it's what we signed up for. But I've never experienced exhaustion before and it's no fun.

I'm sure I'm just a whinging copper and there's plenty of people who are really going through it at the moment.....Tony H springs to mind but I'm knackered. Need a rest!!!!!!

Hope you get a rest very soon kiwi, i for one dont think your whinging mate and you do i job i couldnt and wouldnt want to do so ordinary people can be safe.

[Kiwiseddon]

Well it's over. Eleven days straight and I've managed to wrangle tomorrow off. Thank God for that!!!! The missus is even treating me to a curry as well.

I can put my hand on my heart and say that NOTHING has happened in Stoke which I'm very glad about.

What an awful situation the country was in. I'm just so glad that things are getting back to normal across the country and I just hope that it stays that way.

And Wigan have stuffed Salford!!

[Wes]

Kiwi I am glad you have a day off rest is very important to keep the body going and seeing your little un an wife and being treated to a curry should put your moral right back where it should be!

[cpwigan]

Kiwi, May (A witch IMO) seems to be arguing that total numbers of actual officers is not the key but rather the ability to flood officers from wherever etc. She admits I think/hope that it is not sustainable to do that for any length but knowing that you had to work 11 ? days straight through and that would be typical my ? is if lots of officers are flooded from other areas and if a force's officers are put on one issue then what happens to normal duties / public issues/crimes. I am presuming they get put on a back burner and a backlog builds up?

One issue I always have is that when you bring officers from other areas to deal with issues they often alienate the public because they can walk away from the area and never deal with the fallout. The Miners Strike being a classic example.

I do smile that they hail NY wonder cop but he got 5000 extra staff, extra budgets etc No magician was he and at odds with the loaves and fishes philosophy of politicians.

[gpartin]

Something people need to think about is that Cameron, Clegg, Milliband will tell you our policies will change X, Y and Z overnight.

I know Cameron will tell you he is bringing changes into schools. Let me tell you the changes are relatively meaningless and OFSTED will continue to play a political game where they say the children in every school are wonderfully behaved. So if that is the case then the politicians saying schools need to do X, Y and Z must be wrong OR is somebody lying?

I daresay the police will have similar experiences and other public servants of how politicians pretending and playing games achieves nothing.

Anybody who thinks you can change attitude and behaviour overnight is a con artist and a liar.

It will take decades!!

I said a similar thing after a Nick Clegg speech a bit ago where he was talking about the poverty gap. On the one hand he was justifying cuts to public services saying they had done nothing to inprove the poverty gap and then later on in his speech he was saying that whatever they did we wouldn't see the results of their changes for decades because that's how long it takes and the poverty gap now is as a result of changes brought in in the early 80's.

It's the same as what we were talking about the other day with te banking crisis, this is suddenly the worst time for banking since 2008 or whatever it was according to the Tories and it will effect the economy because it benefits them to say that now. Politicians claim allsorts of credit when its not theres. The BNP candidate here in morley constantly talks about stuff he has campaigned for that has been implemented, what he doesn't say is that it was labour who implemented the policies.

Apologies to the police officers on here, I know that on the whole you do a good job under difficult circumstances and I've actually defended the police on a number of occasions, I shouldn't have tarred you all with the same brush based on my experiences and I genuinely feel for people like Kiwiseddon who give their time up to protect people's homes and property. I'm genuinely sorry.

Gaz

No worries Gaz. It seems that the experiences you've had with the Police give you fair cause to feel the way that you do about some Police Officers. I know a few in my Force who make me cringe with the way they go about things. I also know some fantastic Coppers.

Like me........I'm AWESOME

Haha missed this and I'm sure you are mate, I'm just a grumpy git.

[Kiwiseddon]

Kiwi, May (A witch IMO) seems to be arguing that total numbers of actual officers is not the key but rather the ability to flood officers from wherever etc. She admits I think/hope that it is not sustainable to do that for any length but knowing that you had to work 11 ? days straight through and that would be typical my ? is if lots of officers are flooded from other areas and if a force's officers are put on one issue then what happens to normal duties / public issues/crimes. I am presuming they get put on a back burner and a backlog builds up?

One issue I always have is that when you bring officers from other areas to deal with issues they often alienate the public because they can walk away from the area and never deal with the fallout. The Miners Strike being a classic example.

I do smile that they hail NY wonder cop but he got 5000 extra staff, extra budgets etc No magician was he and at odds with the loaves and fishes philosophy of politicians.

May has got a very weird perspective on things and I'm fairly confident that she's just trying to spin a perspective that the Police can manage with fewer numbers. The simple truth is that we can't IMO. Everything that the Police need however, numbers, training, resources and support staff cost money and lots of it! It's like anything, If you pump money into something (like these riots £200 million) you get results. In terms of the riots, it was a blanket stop the instant all the Police hit the streets. If there wasn't a better example of how Police on the streets make a difference, I don't know what is.
Fewer Police and the concept of draughting Officers from other Forces to a situation is theoretically possible but it means that the Police across the country will we working flat out on emergency money through cancelled rest days. The bill will be astronomical and the tax payer is back to square one. Furthermore, the Police will be on duty far more than they're not and I personally cannot do 11 days straight again in the very near future. It was tough and I was physically and mentally exhausted. (The military boys and girls can now laugh at the feeble Policeman!)

The long and short of it is that for any service, like the Police or the NHS or teaching, these services require vast amounts of money which the country hasn't got. Restructuring is inevitable and so are cuts. I think I'm fairly resigned to it now. What will also happen is that crime will not be dealt with as well as it would with more Police. It's that simple.

[cpwigan]

Kiwi, May (A witch IMO) seems to be arguing that total numbers of actual officers is not the key but rather the ability to flood officers from wherever etc. She admits I think/hope that it is not sustainable to do that for any length but knowing that you had to work 11 ? days straight through and that would be typical my ? is if lots of officers are flooded from other areas and if a force's officers are put on one issue then what happens to normal duties / public issues/crimes. I am presuming they get put on a back burner and a backlog builds up?

One issue I always have is that when you bring officers from other areas to deal with issues they often alienate the public because they can walk away from the area and never deal with the fallout. The Miners Strike being a classic example.

I do smile that they hail NY wonder cop but he got 5000 extra staff, extra budgets etc No magician was he and at odds with the loaves and fishes philosophy of politicians.

May has got a very weird perspective on things and I'm fairly confident that she's just trying to spin a perspective that the Police can manage with fewer numbers. The simple truth is that we can't IMO. Everything that the Police need however, numbers, training, resources and support staff cost money and lots of it! It's like anything, If you pump money into something (like these riots £200 million) you get results. In terms of the riots, it was a blanket stop the instant all the Police hit the streets. If there wasn't a better example of how Police on the streets make a difference, I don't know what is.
Fewer Police and the concept of draughting Officers from other Forces to a situation is theoretically possible but it means that the Police across the country will we working flat out on emergency money through cancelled rest days. The bill will be astronomical and the tax payer is back to square one. Furthermore, the Police will be on duty far more than they're not and I personally cannot do 11 days straight again in the very near future. It was tough and I was physically and mentally exhausted. (The military boys and girls can now laugh at the feeble Policeman!)

The long and short of it is that for any service, like the Police or the NHS or teaching, these services require vast amounts of money which the country hasn't got. Restructuring is inevitable and so are cuts. I think I'm fairly resigned to it now. What will also happen is that crime will not be dealt with as well as it would with more Police. It's that simple.

What I thought mate. In my sadness I watched May making her speech and that was my conclusion spin, spin, spin and all I could think was the Police Chiefs sat there are better men than me, sitting through the nonsense and keeping stoney faced. After the horse has bolted she was praising the police (falsely because there is no meaning behind it) but then went back to the reality of we want to have a better and better police service but pay less and less for it. Deluded

Public services are expensive, that is the nature of the beast and if they want quality then they have to pay for it because as you say flooding areas with officers works but the cost is huge. I hope the police Chiefs do not let the politicians off the hook and push them as hard as they possibly can because push comes to shove the public will back the police, nurses, teachers etc over politicians.